# The "Great Books" that you want poo all over and then wrap it up in a bag, then down the chute. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 11, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379 "2011-08-11T21:28:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/21 "2011-08-11T22:51:51Z")
As for the plot of _Gatsby_: Gatsby has been longing his whole adult life for something, and gets to where he finally thinks he’s got it. But once it’s in his grasp, it crumbles between his fingers and he can’t understand why or even admit to himself it’s happening. I don’t think any high schooler has lived through that, but as an adult, once you have done so in your own life, it carries a terrible resonance. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/22 "2011-08-11T23:03:03Z")
Actually, the book I hated most was Henry James’ **The Beast in the Jungle**. First of all, it has James’ trademark, pages-long, soul-destroying sentences. There are no Beasts in the book, and no Jungle. nothing happens in the book, and it turns out that the whole _point_ of the book is supposed to be that nothing happens. But it takes a he;lluva long time to not happen. Both Pepper Mill and I also loathe **A Separate Peace**. we both had to read it in high school. Pepper hates it more than I do, because she had to read it twice. I give special mention to Tolstoy’s **The Death of Ivan Ilych**. Even though you know he’s going to die (the title is a dead giveaway), it takes so damned long to happen. It feels as if it takes longer than the actual book. It reminds me of a cartoonI once saw, which had the title _Despondent Russian Novelist Committing Suicide by Leaping from Atop his Suicide Note_. “The Death of Ivan Ilych” could be the prototype for that note. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/23 "2011-08-11T23:07:23Z")
I agree with the remarks about \*Catcher in the Rye. \* I tried three times to read Hesse’s _Steppenwolf_, but could never get past Page 27. I never tried to read another Hesse novel. Shakespeare’s magnificent, but I can’t stand _Romeo and Juliet_. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/24 "2011-08-11T23:16:31Z")
The Grapes of Wrath. Just awful. ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/25 "2011-08-11T23:18:50Z")
The Mill on The Floss. Especially as taught by a very nice but dull teacher who believed in going through books line by unremitting line. See Maggie miserable, see George Eliot explain Maggie’s Misery at length. Ponder why a novel with many autobiographical elements should have a heroine whose tragic and stupid life is the antithesis of the author’s. Actually that last makes it almost interesting but we weren’t encouraged to think about it in school. My Jane Austen bete noire is Northanger Abbey. Hey let’s give 16 yr old schoolgirls a book about stupid 16 year old girls, they’re bound to be amused! In later life I’ve decided Jane Austen was a spiteful old cat without a good word for anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/26 "2011-08-11T23:21:04Z")
From the link: "everything afterwards smacks of striving to write a “great” work, rather than simply striving to write—it’s all too voulu. " Anybody else want to punch Daniel Mendelsohn right in the dick for that sentence? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/27 "2011-08-11T23:24:59Z")
Pepper Mill says that she agrees about **The Catcher in the Rye**. But I have to protest **The Grapes of Wrath** – I liked that one. I’ve liked all the Steinbeck I’ve read. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/28 "2011-08-11T23:28:09Z")
From Slate - > [@](#): > > At these unforgivable points the reader feels like dialing 911 for some emergency Freudian intervention and/or the NAACP. snerk For myself, there’s three abominations: **Heart of Darkness**. (Oh God, the Darkness. Did I mention that it was dark? AND Menacing. Very. Also dark.) Jesus, yes, we get it already. You’re very good at symbology. Sheesh. I wrote a HS paper on this dreck where I very studiously compared it (in the classic HS five-paragraph style) to a steaming pile of shit. I got an A- because my HS teacher thought I needed to at least \*attempt \*to make my point without the use of profanity. **Lord of the Flies**. (oh God, kids are evil. Evil! EEEEVIL I TELL YOU!!1!!! Without society’s constraints, we’re all just ANIMALS!! EEEEVIL Animals!1!) Yes, _psychic wince_ thanks, I gathered that. I \*needed \*to be more generally anxious about my fellow humans while I was already a pariah in high school. Thanks. **Catcher in the Rye**. (life is haaaard.) Give me a break. Seriously? This is literature? Let me find my emo goth witch high-school friend’s journal. If this shit is literature, then that ought to qualify her for a laureate post somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Skara\_Brae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Skara\_Brae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skara_Brae)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/29 "2011-08-11T23:40:59Z")
> [@OscarGold](#): > > [Tom Perrotta, Francine Prose, and others on "great books" that aren't great.](http://www.slate.com/id/2301312/) > > For me, it has to be Pride & Prejudice by Jane Austen. I found the portrayal of Mr. Collins to be most… uncomfortable… for me… The reason? Well, I am a real-life Mr. Collins: A phony, an ass-kisser, a social-climber. > > How about you? The thing about Mr. Collins is that he doesn’t realize he’s an ass-kisser. He’s truly enthralled by all things greater than him. > [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](#): > > The Mill on The Floss. Especially as taught by a very nice but dull teacher who believed in going through books line by unremitting line. See Maggie miserable, see George Eliot explain Maggie’s Misery at length. Ponder why a novel with many autobiographical elements should have a heroine whose tragic and stupid life is the antithesis of the author’s. Actually that last makes it almost interesting but we weren’t encouraged to think about it in school. > > My Jane Austen bete noire is Northanger Abbey. Hey let’s give 16 yr old schoolgirls a book about stupid 16 year old girls, they’re bound to be amused! In later life I’ve decided Jane Austen was a spiteful old cat without a good word for anyone. I instantly thought of \*The Mill on the Floss \*when I read the thread title. And I read it in college and had a great teacher, still hated it. I have to defend Northanger Abbey though. Its a parody of the gothic novels that were so popular at the time. I think we are so far removed from that time that fact gets lost. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/30 "2011-08-11T23:48:15Z")
> [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > De-lurking to point out that you don’t know what you’re talking about. The Nobel is not awarded for a single work. Never has, never will. It’s a lifetime achievement award. And yet, plenty of sources in publishing will maintain that Nobels [are](http://us.macmillan.com/theglassbeadgame) given for specific works. ---
**Author:** ![Myrnalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@Myrnalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrnalene)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/31 "2011-08-11T23:58:04Z")
> [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](#): > > My Jane Austen bete noire is Northanger Abbey. Hey let’s give 16 yr old schoolgirls a book about stupid 16 year old girls, they’re bound to be amused! In later life I’ve decided Jane Austen was a spiteful old cat without a good word for anyone. Catherine is no genius but she has other good qualities (loyalty, determination and kindness) and Austen seems to have affection for her (she gets to marry my favorite Austen hero after all), so your feelings seem overly hostile in proportion to the work in question. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/32 "2011-08-11T23:58:40Z")
Naturally some of my all-time favorites are loathed. People always gotta hate on _Catcher in the Rye_. It’s one of the more convincing portrayals of PTSD I’ve read. I try to read it once a year. _Heart of Darkness_ I appreciated more for its meaning than its execution. All that angsty crap - _The Death of Ivan Illych, Lord of the Flies_ - make my soul sing. I hate _Beowulf_, _The Crucible_, and _Wuthering Heights_ (blech!) We also had to read this terrible book called _Ethan Frome_ and it was nothing but endless winter and misery. Not interesting misery, either. The most boring kind. ---
**Author:** ![campp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@campp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/campp)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/33 "2011-08-12T00:00:03Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Both Pepper Mill and I also loathe **A Separate Peace**. we both had to read it in high school. Pepper hates it more than I do, because she had to read it twice. Ugghh. Came in here to say this or agree with those before me. Let me say it again. Ugghh. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/34 "2011-08-12T00:01:05Z")
I thought Gravity’s Rainbow was tedious (and too long) and Catcher in the Rye was overrated (but fairly short, at least). Looking at the [Modern Library 100 best novels list](http://www.modernlibrary.com/top-100/100-best-novels/) that they mention, I’ll also add that I thought Tropic of Cancer was boring and The Good Soldier was not particularly memorable. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/35 "2011-08-12T00:29:24Z")
_Atlas Shrugged_, Ayn Rand: I wanted to shoot the author and then myself. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/36 "2011-08-12T00:59:41Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > I think some books require you to live out a bit of your own life before you can really appreciate them. I just re-read The Great Gatsby, twenty-odd years after the first time in high school, and it was a totally different experience. I can’t say I’d had a great deal of meaningful life experience when, during my junior year of college, I eagerly read and enjoyed several notorious high school yawn-inducers–_Oliver Twist_, _Look Homeward, Angel_, and, of course, _The Great Gatsby_, _Main Street_, and _Babbitt_. I also devoured any of Upton Sinclair’s “Lanny Budd” novels I could get my hands on. I can’t say these last were notorious for eliciting yawns in high schools, because I’m pretty sure that Sinclair’s works of fiction had been thoroughly purged from high school reading lists. Although I consider myself to have still been very much a kid in those days, perhaps it was the fact that I was living six thousand of miles away from home, in a country where English was a foreign language, that made this reading more appealing to me. On the other hand, a lot of early American novelists still seem terribly stiff and dry, as if reflecting the early puritanism of New England. I doubt that I would enjoy _The Scarlet Letter_ even today. The same is true of writers like James Fenimore Cooper, whose _The Prairie_ I attempted to read, and found the first sentence almost impossible to parse. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/37 "2011-08-12T00:59:54Z")
I never understood why **A Separate Peace** was considered a classic. Though I read it in high school, which may have meant I wasn’t ready for it (I hated **Great Expectations** in high school, too, but when I read it years later, I discovered it was well worth all the praise it’s been given). ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/38 "2011-08-12T01:08:30Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I adore _Pride and Prejudice_! I can’t stand Joyce. Joyce +1,000,000 ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/39 "2011-08-12T01:20:13Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > On the other hand, a lot of early American novelists still seem terribly stiff and dry, as if reflecting the early puritanism of New England. \ The same is true of writers like James Fenimore Cooper, whose _The Prairie_ I attempted to read, and found the first sentence almost impossible to parse. Not to worry. Twain himself found [James Fenimore Cooper unreadable](http://etext.virginia.edu/railton/projects/rissetto/offense.html), mostly because Twain (apparently) considered Cooper to be a \*terrible \*writer. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379/40 "2011-08-12T01:31:24Z")
Heart of Darkness. Required reading in school, followed by a test. The entire class, including moi, failed the test. Of all the books in the world, that idiot teacher picked THAT thing??? I couldn’t make head or tails of it - opaque, wordy, and deathly boring. Cliff’s Notes For Dummies wouldn’t have helped…We also read The Odyssey, which I ate right up, but my cousin flat-out refused, yes, refused to read it. ? To each his own, I guess. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-books-that-you-want-poo-all-over-and-then-wrap-it-up-in-a-bag-then-down-the-chute/592379.md?page=3)