# The Great Escape - a few questions and comments **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 5, 2012, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-escape-a-few-questions-and-comments/633802 "2012-09-05T22:44:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![notquitekarpov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@notquitekarpov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notquitekarpov)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-escape-a-few-questions-and-comments/633802/21 "2012-09-06T12:27:42Z")
The father of my wife’s best friend was a low level part of the escape. Sadly I only discovered this after his death. He was a watcher and didn’t even know about the existence of the tunnels let alone where they were. Everybody had a job and only knew what they needed to know. Obvious security plan. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-escape-a-few-questions-and-comments/633802/22 "2012-09-06T13:13:04Z")
> [@Julius\_Henry](#): > > Another book on the same escape is called The Longest Tunnel by Alan Burgess. I once made the mistake of reading _The Longest Tunnel_ by Anthony Burgess. It turned out to be rather more gynecological than I expected. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-escape-a-few-questions-and-comments/633802/23 "2012-09-06T13:35:17Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Steve McQueen’s on the cover of my DVD, and I know they got him for his entertainment value, but he’s so completely out of place it’s absurd. I know his motorcycle-jumping is one of the iconic images of the movie (they were still selling posters of it prominently in the 1970s), but do you really think the movie would be a flop without him? Probably not; look at Guns of Navarone, which had a more international/less American feel to the cast (alright, James Darren…) But Great Escape is very much a follow-up to The Magnificent Seven – same director, Steve McQueen, Charles Bronson and James Coburn reunited. So some casting decisions were made because of old buddies getting back together. Triumph Motorcycles uses Steve McQueen heavily in their marketing, to this day, fwiw. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-escape-a-few-questions-and-comments/633802/24 "2012-09-06T13:36:06Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Steve McQueen’s on the cover of my DVD, and I know they got him for his entertainment value, but he’s so completely out of place it’s absurd. I know his motorcycle-jumping is one of the iconic images of the movie (they were still selling posters of it prominently in the 1970s), but do you really think the movie would be a flop without him? Every movie would be better with Steve McQueen. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-escape-a-few-questions-and-comments/633802/25 "2012-09-06T13:39:28Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Every movie would be better with Steve McQueen. _Bridesmaids_? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-escape-a-few-questions-and-comments/633802/26 "2012-09-06T13:46:37Z")
Steve McQueen as The Air Marshall. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-escape-a-few-questions-and-comments/633802/27 "2012-09-06T13:48:48Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > _Bridesmaids_? That would be…awesome! ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-escape-a-few-questions-and-comments/633802/28 "2012-09-06T14:00:56Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Recently watched, for the umpteenth time, one of my favorite movies: The Great Escape. A few questions came to mind… > > One tunnel (Tom) began under the wood-burning stove. One (Dick?) began under the drain in the shower. Do they ever show construction on Harry, and where it began? Not part of this particular story, but I recall a similar “great escape” (possibly fictional) where one tunnel entrance was right in the middle of the exercise yard. When not in use it was covered with dirt and blended with the rest of the yard. To access the tunnel, the prisoners began an exercise program with a vaulting box, a padded, large crate, open at the bottom, carried by two men from the huts to the yard each day. One man was hidden underneath. When the vault was in place, the man would remove the dirt cover, then enter the tunnel, all concealed by the box above. The dirt from the tunnel was taken out in cloth sacks hung inside the box, and disposed of in a similar manner to the movie, by scattering it in the yard. For the final escape, two men were carried in the vault and stayed in the tunnel until a few more could be brought out, then they all dug the last few yards to the outside at night. At first, the guards were suspicious of course, and they tore the vault box apart while it was stored, but found nothing. Pretty clever idea, whether real or not. ---
**Author:** ![Slade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@Slade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slade)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-escape-a-few-questions-and-comments/633802/29 "2012-09-06T14:04:51Z")
QI had a question recently on the ingenious methods the British Army used to help its soldiers escape from German POW camps. I’m not sure if they were literally Red Cross parcels or not, but aid packages would include items like blankets which, when wet, showed the sewing pattern needed to cut and reshape them into civilian clothes. They also sent Monopoly sets with real German banknotes concealed among the play money and decks of cards which could be peeled apart to reveal tissue paper maps of the countryside round the camp. The clothes sent from home in these packages would sometimes have buttons the British prisoners could unscrew apart to find a compass inside. When the German guards got wise to this, the Brits simply reversed the thread on these buttons so that suspicious guards ended up tightening them rather than opening them up. How the British prisoners were supposed to know this change had been made, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![notquitekarpov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@notquitekarpov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notquitekarpov)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-escape-a-few-questions-and-comments/633802/30 "2012-09-06T14:39:23Z")
The Wooden Horse is the film. Fictional. > **[The Wooden Horse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wooden_Horse)** > > The Wooden Horse is a 1950 British Second World War war film directed by Jack Lee and starring Leo Genn, David Tomlinson and Anthony Steel. It is based on the book of the same name by Eric Williams, who also wrote the screenplay. > The film depicts the true events of an escape attempt made by POWs in the German prison camp Stalag Luft III. The wooden horse in the title of the film is a piece of exercise equipment the prisoners use to conceal their escape attempt as well as a reference to the T... ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-escape-a-few-questions-and-comments/633802/31 "2012-09-06T14:52:55Z")
> [@notquitekarpov](#): > > The Wooden Horse is the film. Fictional. > > [The Wooden Horse - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wooden_Horse) Not fictional. The movie is based on the book by Eric Williams, who was one of the escapees. Interestingly, the camp was also Stalag Luft III, the same as in _The Great Escape_. But a different compound. As the very link you cite says: > [@](#): > > The film depicts the true events of an escape attempt made by POWs in the German POW camp Stalag Luft III. The wooden horse in the title of the film is a piece of exercise equipment the prisoners used to conceal their escape attempt. ---
**Author:** ![notquitekarpov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@notquitekarpov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notquitekarpov)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-escape-a-few-questions-and-comments/633802/32 "2012-09-06T15:30:46Z")
Whoops! I thought I knew it was fictional and so didn’t bother to read my own cite. Actually rather pleased to discover it was based on a true (and successful) escape. But - a lesson learnt. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-escape-a-few-questions-and-comments/633802/33 "2012-09-07T18:50:42Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Not true. Brickhill’s book tells how a “tame goon” brought in developing chemicals for the film. It was indeed used for photo IDs. He never says anything about where the film was developed, or go into any detail about it. It wouldn’t have been all that hard to find a place to set up a darkroom. The POWs had installed all sorts of false walls and secret panels in the barracks, behind which civilian clothing and other escape gear was stored. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-escape-a-few-questions-and-comments/633802/34 "2012-09-07T19:00:45Z")
You really only need two chemicals to develop film or prints; a developer and a fixer. Both can be transported in powder form. You might be able to get by without the fixer if the finished product, say an ID, was kept in a pocket and rarely exposed to light over a short life span. The fixer just makes the image more permanent. If they needed to make enlargements from film negs rather than contact prints, the same camera that took the pic could be used as an enlarger; an enlarger is only a camera in reverse, with a light source coming in the back instead of the front. I can say from experience this works very well, as I made one once. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-escape-a-few-questions-and-comments/633802/35 "2012-09-08T02:06:06Z")
> [@Slade](#): > > QI had a question recently on the ingenious methods the British Army used to help its soldiers escape from German POW camps. > > I’m not sure if they were literally Red Cross parcels or not, but aid packages would include items like blankets which, when wet, showed the sewing pattern needed to cut and reshape them into civilian clothes. They also sent Monopoly sets with real German banknotes concealed among the play money and decks of cards which could be peeled apart to reveal tissue paper maps of the countryside round the camp. . Yes, aid parcels, but NOT Red Cross parcels. The Red Cross was very strict on this. Note that one thing the movie doesn;t show you is that the British had a very poor escape %. Most of the escapees were mainland europeans who fit in. So, they even amplified the importance of the British. The French, Dutch and Poles had better luck. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-escape-a-few-questions-and-comments/633802/36 "2012-09-08T04:10:09Z")
I’m watching it right now. Fantastic, every time! ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-escape-a-few-questions-and-comments/633802/37 "2012-09-08T04:13:17Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > This is more of an historical question: camp conditions seem pretty humane. How accurate was that? (They do state explicitly that the camp is run by the luftwaffe, implying that the Gestapo or S.S. would not care as much about the Geneva Convention.) Like others, I highly recommend reading Paul Brickhill’s book, which was among my favorites as a child. As he describes it, the Air Force prisoners were safe from physical torture, had a decent amount of physical space, and could receive aid packages. On the downside, they didn’t get much food or adequate protection from the brutally cold winters. They could also be subjected to things such as solitary confinement and being forced to stand in the snow for many hours at a time. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-escape-a-few-questions-and-comments/633802/38 "2012-09-08T04:41:39Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Like others, I highly recommend reading Paul Brickhill’s book, which was among my favorites as a child. As he describes it, the Air Force prisoners were safe from physical torture, had a decent amount of physical space, and could receive aid packages. On the downside, they didn’t get much food or adequate protection from the brutally cold winters. They could also be subjected to things such as solitary confinement and being forced to stand in the snow for many hours at a time. We certainly see examples of solitary confinement in the movie. There’s an interesting dialog between the commandant and Roger the senior officer, while he’s gardening. Col von Luger thinks it’s odd that they’re “digging in the earth like peasants”, instead of planting flowers, since British officers are gentlemen…which has lots of subtext about classism in the German and British military. Roger replies that “you can’t eat flowers”, implying that food is not plentiful. I image prisoners in Japanese POW camps would have killed for the potatoes used to make moonshine. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-escape-a-few-questions-and-comments/633802/39 "2012-09-08T06:17:54Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Every movie would be better with Steve McQueen. I dunno, I’m having trouble seeing how he would have fit into **Rocky Horror Picture Show.** The whole Fourth of July/moonshine scene my be fiction, but it’s a hoot. ‘Don’t smoke.’ ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-escape-a-few-questions-and-comments/633802/40 "2012-09-08T15:32:54Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > It wouldn’t have been all that hard to find a place to set up a darkroom. The POWs had installed all sorts of false walls and secret panels in the barracks, behind which civilian clothing and other escape gear was stored. I don’t at all doubt it. I’m just saying the book doesn’t give details. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-escape-a-few-questions-and-comments/633802.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-escape-a-few-questions-and-comments/633802.md?page=3)