# The Great Flag Debate of Utah (now moved on to additional states, currently IL) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 4, 2023, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694 "2023-03-04T01:08:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/1 "2023-03-04T01:08:21Z")
The Utah state legislature has voted for a new state flag. It now goes to the Governor for his decision. Apparently this item took up more legislators’ time this session than the decision to pass a $400 million tax cut. Proponents of the new flag say that it’s simpler, and can be slapped onto t-shirts and coffee mugs. State ~~marketing~~ patriotism at its finest! 😀 Although I do agree that it’s better than the current gawdawful design: - shield on a field? ✅ - written words? ✅ - dates? ✅ and ✅ (two dates, for some reason) - complicated bald eagle, spears and flags? ✅ ✅ ✅ Current design: > **[File:Flag of Utah.svg](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Utah.svg)** Proposed new design is much simpler and more distinctive. As soon as I saw the giant bee-hive, I said “Utah”! (Why a beehive is Utah’s symbol, I have no idea 🤔, but at least I knew immediately what state it was.) > **[File:2022 Utah Flag design.svg](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Utah.svg)** ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/2 "2023-03-04T01:21:14Z")
The beehive was adopted as a symbol by the early Mormons who settled in Utah, because of the supposed industriousness and self-sufficiency of bees. The symbol was carried over when Utah became a state. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/3 "2023-03-04T01:32:01Z")
No separation of church and state? ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/4 "2023-03-04T01:33:08Z")
1 less “State-Seal-On-A-Blue-Field” flag. That’s reason enough to like this flag. The proposed design looks a little too much like a commercial logo for my tastes but I will definitely buy one to go with my other state flags. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/5 "2023-03-04T01:38:35Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > No separation of church and state? In _Utah_?! ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/6 "2023-03-04T01:44:13Z")
I’m sure that the Supreme Court will pray on the matter before ruling. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/7 "2023-03-04T01:44:42Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > The proposed design looks a little too much like a commercial logo for my tastes But it will be perfect on the coffee mugs and t-shirts, remember! ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/8 "2023-03-04T01:47:16Z")
There’s something I don’t like about it. I love the concept - red rocks, mountains, beehive. But the execution is not pleasing to my eye. I think it’s the hexagon, it’s too prominent and distracting. Does the hexagon symbolize something? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/9 "2023-03-04T01:48:45Z")
beeswax? > **[Beeswax and Hexagons](https://beemission.com/blogs/news/beeswax-and-hexagons)** > > Bees get their buzz on about beeswax and hexagons. When we think about bees, we usually associate them with honey, but bees have many more incredible products than just that splendid golden treasure. Beeswax, for instance. It is one of the main... ---
**Author:** ![gnarator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gnarator/32/8266_2.png) [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/10 "2023-03-04T02:28:03Z")
There must be something in the water–Minnesota is discussing a new state flag. For whatever reason, I was looking up state flags the other day, and I ran across the [NAVA state flag survey from 2001](https://s3.amazonaws.com/ClubExpressClubFiles/622278/documents/2001-State-Provincial-Flag-Survey_432284798.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIA6MYUE6DNNNCCDT4J&Expires=1677895358&response-content-disposition=inline%3B%20filename%3D2001-State-Provincial-Flag-Survey.pdf&Signature=%2B9X8pAdZLPBTrncgPPc16XY7kY8%3D). [This page](https://news.lee.net/news/national/from-first-to-worst-ranking-every-us-states-flag/collection_8c0e579e-4bae-11e7-a540-a7fc6028acd5.html#30) has all of the state flags, though it is out of date. The boring, state seal on a blue field was widely derided, with most of the worst flags (like Utah’s or Minnesota’s) being that type. A few states have updated their designs since, including last-place Georgia and Mississippi. I like the new design, though it is like a commercial logo. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/11 "2023-03-04T05:15:13Z")
I’ve never lived in Utah. I like the new design. The dramatic Wasatch Mountains above Salt Lake City are represented well. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/12 "2023-03-04T05:20:54Z")
I think it would look awesome on a state license plate. As a flag it’s a joke. Flags and seals are supposed to be Olde Tymey harkening back to the founding of the entity they represent. Not updated every few years like corporate logos. That way lies madness. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/13 "2023-03-04T05:33:31Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Why a beehive is Utah’s symbol, I have no idea We had some argument about Church Rock and whether that was the actual thing that they were going for with the “beehive” symbol. [https://katurley.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/4292-church-rock.jpg](https://katurley.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/4292-church-rock.jpg) (this formation is in the SW corner of the state, off the highway between Monticello and Moab) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/14 "2023-03-04T10:01:00Z")
Even in Utah, there’s separation of church and state, even though today’s Qliban, er Republican Party is dong its best throughout the entire country to ensure SOCAS is consigned to the dustbin of history. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/15 "2023-03-04T10:19:39Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > > > The proposed design looks a little too much like a commercial logo for my tastes > > But it will be perfect on the coffee mugs and t-shirts, remember! Given that it’s Utah, more likely hot cocoa mugs and T-shirts… ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/16 "2023-03-04T10:47:05Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Flags and seals are supposed to be Olde Tymey harkening back to the founding of the entity they represent. _State_ flags were mostly invented so the state could have another tchotchke to show off at each grand exhibition of state crap, with each state’s butter sculpture and official flower and such. So even if it is a corporate logo, that seems entirely in keeping with the history. ---
**Author:** ![fordgt100](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@fordgt100](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fordgt100)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/17 "2023-03-04T13:18:32Z")
They should look at the state flag of New Mexico. A simple design in only two colors makes it stand out from all the other state flags. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/18 "2023-03-04T15:14:22Z")
New Mexico has an excellent state flag. I’m also a big fan of Ohio’s, and would be even if I didn’t live here. I’m not crazy about the proposed new Utah flag - it does look a bit too sleek and corporatized - but I agree it would be an improvement over the current one. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/19 "2023-03-04T15:28:24Z")
And of course, the flag is mainly red, white, and blue. Gotta keep the 'murica! in our flag! ---
**Author:** ![Cwturner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Cwturner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cwturner)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/20 "2023-03-04T15:30:30Z")
> [@gnarator](#): > > [This page](https://news.lee.net/news/national/from-first-to-worst-ranking-every-us-states-flag/collection_8c0e579e-4bae-11e7-a540-a7fc6028acd5.html#30) has all of the state flags, though it is out of date OMG, one page at a time?! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694.md?page=2)