# The Great Flag Debate of Utah (now moved on to additional states, currently IL) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 4, 2023, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694 "2023-03-04T01:08:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/241 "2024-06-18T22:18:56Z")
There’s something else besides LL Bean and lobsters that Maine is noted for. OK, well should be noted for: the toothpick. I read somewhere that 95% of all wooden toothpicks are made in Maine. So they need a flag with a tree made of toothpicks! ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/242 "2024-06-19T09:30:21Z")
Or a gigantic open mouth with a gigantic toothpick. If it has to have a star, it could be like a gleam on the shiny clean teeth. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/243 "2024-06-20T03:01:38Z")
I can understand saying that flags with certain design elements are _preferred,_ but saying that anything else is forbidden seems… a bit much. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/244 "2024-06-26T03:32:39Z")
**The** purpose of flags is martial. Outside of the battlefield, they are little more than windowdressing. Martial flags generally follow the rules of heraldry/vexillology. Other flags are not really meaningful, so the practical rules do not really apply to them. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/245 "2024-06-26T04:23:52Z")
I disagree. Flags also serve political, social, fraternal, decorative and signaling purposes, among others. Non-martial flags can be just as meaningful as martial ones, and practical rules do apply, for reasons of aesthetics, clarity, cost and public acceptance/support. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/246 "2024-06-26T11:24:43Z")
I’ll suggest @eschereal is right about why they were originally invented a thousand plus years ago. Meanwhile @Elendil_s_Heir is spot-on about what they’re for in the modern era. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/247 "2024-06-26T13:11:37Z")
The purpose that flags originally served on the battlefield is now served much more by radio signals and cryptographic techniques. The modern purpose for flags is much removed from that. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2024, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/248 "2024-10-22T19:26:30Z")
It looks like they picked a winner in Maine back in August but have to wait for the voters to decide in November: [https://mainemorningstar.com/briefs/here-is-a-look-at-the-new-state-flag-design-mainers-will-vote-on-this-november/](https://mainemorningstar.com/briefs/here-is-a-look-at-the-new-state-flag-design-mainers-will-vote-on-this-november/) And I will definitely buy one for my flag collection if they adopt it. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2024, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/249 "2024-10-22T19:29:59Z")
> [@carnut](#): > > Also, as a Minnesotan, I do despair the removal of green from the flag. Minnesota is lush with green during the summer. According to my son who was in Minneapolis for a while, whatever the flag is it should have a wild turkey (bird not bottle) covering it. They’re taking over the flag just like they’re taking over the state. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2024, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/250 "2024-10-22T19:32:51Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > A rather dictatorial tone from the state. Apparently the law said to use the old flag which is exactly what they did. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2024, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/251 "2024-11-18T14:04:55Z")
So how many new flags have been adopted recently? Mississippi, Utah, Minnesota, and Maine are the four I can think of. Are there any others in the works? I wish my county would adopt a flag. Right now, all they have is a white flag with the county letterhead logo on it. And it’s not even official. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2024, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/252 "2024-11-18T15:05:28Z")
In the country’s current feverish mood, be careful about wishing for lots of new flags. You just might get them. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/253 "2024-12-11T13:25:35Z")
Now [Illinois’ turn?](https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/10-finalists-llinois-state-flag-redesign-contest/) Uh, the only candidate I think not buttugly is the one that most closely resembles the current one (which I have never had a problem with.). A butterfly? Seriously? And that one with what I figured out after some effort was Lincoln’s profile in blue and the state’s western border in red? Almost as impressive as the latest license plate redesign fiasco (which has NOT improved with familiarity.) Way to break something that didn’t need fixing! ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/254 "2024-12-11T13:39:57Z")
None of them really get it right. The butterfly and stars is is actually the strongest one in my opinion but that’s not saying much. Some of the other options have good ideas like the one big star surrounded by 20 littles stars. Just do that in gold on a plain blue field and call it a day. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/255 "2024-12-11T14:09:14Z")
I liked the “gearwheel and corn kernels”. If course, being a sci-fi nerd, I first thought it looked like the Galactic Empire logo from the Star Wars movies. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/256 "2024-12-11T14:12:48Z")
I like the thinking that went into it, but the colors were not so good. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/257 "2024-12-11T14:21:48Z")
The Maine flag referendum failed: > **[Referendum to replace Maine state flag fails](https://www.mainepublic.org/politics/2024-11-06/early-results-show-mainers-rejecting-referendum-to-change-the-state-flag)** > > Maine voters have rejected a proposal to change the state flag. Brian ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/258 "2024-12-11T14:29:09Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > None of them really get it right. My general analysis, as well. I don’t like inclusion of literal elements like the outline of the state or the letter “I” in them. The Lincoln one with the outline of the state is particularly weird as that white negative space looks like it represents something, but apparently is just negative space. The ones with the circular design in the middle look pleasant enough and are not ugly, but they’re also not really distinctive and they’re too single-toned The one with the sun, prairie, sky with three stars, is probably my favorite of the bunch, but the exact choice of colors doesn’t quite do it for me. The one with the state surrounded by the stars is probably my least favorite. I find it both ugly and too literal. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/259 "2024-12-11T14:31:49Z")
Well, that’s an ugly and lazy one, too, so I don’t blame the voters for rejecting the referendum ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/260 "2024-12-11T14:40:05Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > The Maine flag referendum failed: Meaning 55% of Maine voters are idiots. As for the Illinois proposals, is there something significant to the Illini about blue & white as the state colors? It seems like a theme. The ones with the state outline are bad and the I one is even worse. Did they not learn to keep it simple? > [@pulykamell](#): > > Well, that’s an ugly and lazy one, too, so I don’t blame the voters for rejecting the referendum Maine? Better than the one they have now and historical meaning to the state. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694.md?page=14)