# The Great Flag Debate of Utah (now moved on to additional states, currently IL) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 4, 2023, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694 "2023-03-04T01:08:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2024, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/281 "2024-12-15T19:49:01Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Should Mexico get rid of the eagle on their flag? The Mexican flag isn’t great, either. But in practice, it’s a red-white-green tricolor with a splotch in the middle of it, and you can learn that that’s Mexico. There’s at least something. Illinois is just a splotch on a white background. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > Or - instead of improving the MANY things Illinois needs to improve upon, just pick a new flag and lay, “Look at how modern and forward thinking we are!” I don’t think there’s any “instead” about it. The big problems they’d be solving without changing the flag, they’ll solve with changing the flag, too, and the big problems they’re currently ignoring, they’d ignore without changing the flag. It’s not like choosing a flag uses up so much time and energy that they don’t have any left over to deal with global warming, or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2024, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/282 "2024-12-15T21:10:28Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Just curious - are you from Illinois? Because I’ve never had a problem with it. Some so called ‘flag experts’ think any flag with a State seal is a bad one. I have a flag question. The five colors of the Olympic flag rings were selected as at that point- 1913 iirc- at least one of those five colors was in every nations flag. Is that still true? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2024, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/283 "2024-12-15T21:12:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s just a terrible flag. It’s too busy, it’s has writing on it, it’s not very distinctive, it’s not particularly associated with Illinois. IMO, as a resident of Illinois for the past 35 years: it’s _ugly_. The artwork has always struck me as extremely amateurish, as though it had been created by a 14-year-old using Microsoft Paint. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2024, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/284 "2024-12-15T21:34:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Is that still true? Nope. Qatar doesn’t have any of them. [![](https://cdn.britannica.com/76/5776-050-74220DEB/Flag-Qatar.jpg) ](https://cdn.britannica.com/76/5776-050-74220DEB/Flag-Qatar.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2024, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/285 "2024-12-15T21:39:13Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Nope. Qatar doesn’t have any of them. And if you look at Latvia’s flag, it has a red-white-red horizontal tricolor. But the shade of red is very dark, almost brown. Very close to the same shade as Qatar’s. Not the same as the Olympic red. [![](https://www.fotw.info/images/l/lv.gif) ](https://www.fotw.info/images/l/lv.gif) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2024, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/286 "2024-12-15T22:17:21Z")
If an Illinois is to include some sort of device or devices, at least one of them should be a narrow yellow triangle, curved on the hoistward edge, with two or three red circles embedded, to evoke the pizza Chicago is famous for. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2024, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/287 "2024-12-15T23:55:04Z")
The Olympic flag’s color scheme includes the white background. Qatar’s and Latvia’s flags have white elements in them. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2024, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/288 "2024-12-30T23:18:40Z")
I’m rather fond of this proposed flag honoring one of Illinois’ greatest statesmen; [![](https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:wtaooi76cqzxwim25am5yl4p/bafkreidakguoc5pa3e6mxdsbso5xn7xsxspr5doffq7l55koctjbv4lqri@jpeg) ](https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:wtaooi76cqzxwim25am5yl4p/bafkreidakguoc5pa3e6mxdsbso5xn7xsxspr5doffq7l55koctjbv4lqri@jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/289 "2025-01-08T18:44:03Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Should Mexico get rid of the eagle on their flag? No. [From here](https://www.barcelo.com/pinandtravel/en/mexican-flag/#:~:text=The%20symbolism%20behind%20the%20Mexican%20flag%20eagle,-The%20center%20of&text=It%20goes%20back%20to%20an,capital%20of%20the%20Aztec%20Empire.&text=eating%20a%20serpent-,In%20ancient%20times%2C%20the%20gods%20told%20the%20Aztecs%20that%20they,a%20cactus%2C%20eating%20a%20serpent.) > The center of the Mexican flag is its most striking feature and what has now become the Mexico coat of arms. It’s a powerful-looking Golden Eagle, perched atop a prickly pear cactus, with a snake in its beak and talons. What’s the meaning behind this imagery? It goes back to an Aztec legend that foretold the founding of Tenochtitlan, the capital of the Aztec Empire. In ancient times, the gods told the Aztecs that they would find the perfect place to build their city when they saw an eagle on a cactus, eating a serpent. They spotted such an eagle – right in the spot that is now the main plaza in Mexico City. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/290 "2025-01-08T22:22:33Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > As for the Illinois proposals, is there something significant to the Illini about blue & white as the state colors? No; I don’t think Illinois has official colors, but if we did, it would be navy blue and orange, the colors of both the State University and the Bears. I would be inclined to go with the butterfly design, just because it was the only one that got that right. But honestly, the current flag is so bad I’d pick any of the ten contenders over it. None of them are anywhere near as awesome as Laser-Eyes Abe Lincoln, though. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/291 "2025-01-09T00:12:41Z")
Supposedly there’s going to be a vote this month on these flags. I assume this will be an online vote, but I can’t find any info on where it is. Anyone know? > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > But honestly, the current flag is so bad I’d pick any of the ten contenders over it. One of those contenders is not that different from the current flag. It got rid of the state’s name at the bottom and then added some blue and red stripes on the edges. The text claims it eliminates the seal-on-a-bedsheet look. Well, that’s true, but it substitutes a seal-on-a-beach-towel look. Not a great improvement. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/292 "2025-01-09T00:20:44Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Supposedly there’s going to be a vote this month on these flags. I assume this will be an online vote, but I can’t find any info on where it is. Anyone know? Yes, it looks like it will be an online vote, on the Secretary of State’s website, but it doesn’t appear that voting has been opened up yet. [https://www.ilsos.gov/special/IFC/home.html](https://www.ilsos.gov/special/IFC/home.html) ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/293 "2025-01-09T01:03:04Z")
No, that’s a pretty small improvement, but I’d still call it an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/294 "2025-01-09T01:07:32Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Not sure I ever heard anyone complain about it (or really express an opinion one way or another.). Well, it’s not something that comes up in conversation with me, but it’s ugly as shit. Meanwhile, the Chicago flag is absolutely gorgeous and what a flag should strive to be. There are very few state flags that are not pieces of poorly designed trash. Not that I’ve ever thought about it or have strong feelings or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/295 "2025-01-09T01:09:08Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > As for the Illinois proposals, is there something significant to the Illini about blue & white as the state colors? It seems like a theme. I assume they’re trying to imitate Chicago’s flag, which is very popular there and gets flown almost as much as the Stars and Stripes. [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9b/Flag_of_Chicago%2C_Illinois.svg/1200px-Flag_of_Chicago%2C_Illinois.svg.png) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9b/Flag_of_Chicago%2C_Illinois.svg/1200px-Flag_of_Chicago%2C_Illinois.svg.png) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/296 "2025-01-09T01:25:34Z")
Golly what a meaningless imagination-free mess that is. It is distinctive though. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/297 "2025-01-09T02:26:10Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Golly what a meaningless imagination-free mess that is. The elements of the Chicago flag actually have specific meanings; as per [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Chicago): > [@](#): > > The three white background areas of the flag represent, from top to bottom, the North, [West](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Side,_Chicago), and [South](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Side_(Chicago)) sides of the city. The top blue bar represents [Lake Michigan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Michigan) and the North Branch of the [Chicago River](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_River). The bottom blue bar represents the South Branch of the river and the “[Great Canal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Sanitary_and_Ship_Canal)”, over the [Chicago Portage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Portage) > [@](#): > > There are four red [six-pointed stars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-pointed_star) on the center white bar. Six-pointed stars are used because [five-pointed stars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-pointed_star) represent sovereign states and because the star as designed was found on no other known flags as of 1917.[[7]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Chicago#cite_note-7) From the [hoist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_vexillology#Flag_elements) outwards, the stars represent: > > - Original to the 1917 flag: This star stands for the [Great Chicago Fire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chicago_Fire) of 1871. Its six points symbolize transportation, labor, commerce, finance, populousness, and salubrity (health). [[1]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Chicago#cite_note-Design_requirements-1)[[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Chicago#cite_note-chipub-2) > - Original to the 1917 flag: This star symbolizes the [World’s Columbian Exposition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_Columbian_Exposition) of 1893. Its six points represent the virtues of religion, education, aesthetics, justice, beneficence, and civic pride. [[1]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Chicago#cite_note-Design_requirements-1)[[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Chicago#cite_note-chipub-2) > - Added in 1933: This star represents the [Century of Progress](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_Progress) Exposition (1933–34). Its points refer to: Chicago’s status as the United States’ second largest city at the time of the star’s addition (Chicago became third largest in a 1990 census when passed by [Los Angeles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles)); Chicago’s Latin motto, **Urbs in horto** (“City in a garden”); Chicago’s “I Will” motto; the Great Central Marketplace; Wonder City; and Convention City.[[1]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Chicago#cite_note-Design_requirements-1)[[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Chicago#cite_note-chipub-2) > - Added in 1939: Commemorates [Fort Dearborn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Dearborn), and its six points stand for political entities the Chicago region has belonged to and the flags that have flown over the area: [France](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Country), 1693; [Great Britain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Province_of_Quebec_(1763%E2%80%931791)), 1763; [Virginia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_County,_Virginia), 1778; the [Northwest Territory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Territory), 1789; [Indiana Territory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Territory), 1802; and Illinois ([territory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Territory), 1809, and [state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois), since 1818).[ ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/298 "2025-01-09T02:46:27Z")
Nah. It’s pretty. Does everything a flag should do: be distinctive, be simple enough for a fourth grader to draw, be recognizable from a distance, have meaning. And I like the abstraction of the two branches of the Chicago river, and the four stars signifying historical events in Chicago history (they were thinking of adding a fifth star not too long ago for some reason … and that’s yet another cool feature, the ability to update the design when something of great enough significance happens here.) It’s absolutely perfect. (And I have to wonder how you didn’t see Lincoln’s profile immediately in that one flag design. It’s not cleverly hidden like the FedEx logo you mentioned. It’s right there! Then again, we Illinoisans are used to seeing Lincoln’s visage pretty regularly, so I suppose we’re conditioned to see it. Not a fan of that flag at all, though. The white negative space is so distracting and pointless.) When it comes to state flags, I think New Mexico wins; Texas is absolutely solid; Arizona is cool; Colorado is cool. And I love Ohio for its wacky shape with sound graphic design. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/299 "2025-01-09T03:12:37Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Golly what a meaningless imagination-free mess that is. I’m pretty sure that within the Chicago metro area those are considered “fightin’ words”. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/300 "2025-01-09T03:23:41Z")
Yeah, it’s a solid flag design. There are a few states that are better, but there’s definitely nothing wrong with it. And that’s especially impressive, for a city flag: Usually by the time you get to city flags, you have to accept something pretty messy to keep it distinctive. > [@pulykamell](#): > > When it comes to state flags, I think New Mexico wins; Texas is absolutely solid; Arizona is cool; Colorado is cool. And I love Ohio for its wacky shape with sound graphic design. I’ll agree that New Mexico is top-tier, but I think I’d put Alaska in that category, too. Both of them, if you showed them to someone who didn’t know state flags and asked them to guess what they’re the flag of, they’d probably be able to get it right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694.md?page=16)