# The Great Flag Debate of Utah (now moved on to additional states, currently IL) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 4, 2023, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694 "2023-03-04T01:08:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/301 "2025-01-09T03:28:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Usually by the time you get to city flags, you have to accept something pretty messy to keep it distinctive. This was the official flag of the city of Green Bay, up until about a decade ago. [![](https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/gcdn/presto/2021/12/27/PGRB/85b1973f-e4b0-43dc-888d-88a26509239c-GreenBay_-_Vintage_FlagPRINT.jpg?width=1200&disable=upscale&format=pjpg&auto=webp) ](https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/gcdn/presto/2021/12/27/PGRB/85b1973f-e4b0-43dc-888d-88a26509239c-GreenBay_-_Vintage_FlagPRINT.jpg?width=1200&disable=upscale&format=pjpg&auto=webp) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/302 "2025-01-09T03:30:34Z")
Oh dear. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/303 "2025-01-09T03:40:20Z")
Oh, yeah, Alaska would probably be next on my list. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/304 "2025-01-09T04:36:58Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > When it comes to state flags, I think New Mexico wins; Texas is absolutely solid; Arizona is cool; Colorado is cool. And I love Ohio for its wacky shape with sound graphic design. I agree with NM and TX being top tier. I’d add the new Minnesota flag to that tier. Or perhaps just below it. If they’d kept the original proposed flag, it would definitely be top tier. (They changed the star and removed the horizontal stripes before they adopted it.) But Arizona’s flag has one thing that keeps it from being top tier. The copper color of the star is not distinct enough from the red rays it borders on. They either need to make it a color distinct from all its bordering colors or give it a white border. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/305 "2025-01-09T04:42:15Z")
I always get the Texas flag and the Chile flag confused. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/306 "2025-01-09T04:46:31Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I always get the Texas flag and the Chile flag confused I get Monaco’s and Indonesia’s flags confused. Also Chad’s and Romania’s. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/307 "2025-01-09T04:56:16Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > But Arizona’s flag has one thing that keeps it from being top tier. The copper color of the star is not distinct enough from the red rays it borders on. They either need to make it a color distinct from all its bordering colors or give it a white border. Living in Phoenix, I thought the star stood out just fine and the copper made the flag unique. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/308 "2025-01-09T05:22:38Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Living in Phoenix, I thought the star stood out just fine and the copper made the flag unique. Looking at it from a distance under less than ideal conditions will make the red and copper not be distinct. Even in some renderings I’ve seen in various places, the two don’t come out distinct. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/309 "2025-01-09T12:09:26Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > But Arizona’s flag has one thing that keeps it from being top tier. The copper color of the star is not distinct enough from the red rays it borders on. They either need to make it a color distinct from all its bordering colors or give it a white border. Yeah, looking at it online, I do see what you’re saying, and now it’s gonna bug me. 🙂 It could use a little more contrast or, as you say, a white border or something to make it visually distinct. It does kind of bleed into the red yellow of the top half. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/310 "2025-01-09T14:37:45Z")
I give them props for not taking themselves too seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/311 "2025-01-09T15:15:19Z")
I can appreciate the vex ideals. And exceptional designs - such as NM’s, are wonderful. But - IMO - none of these IL proposals are exceptional. If someone comes up with an exceptional idea - by all means, adopt it. But don’t accept a mediocre design just for the sake of change. It is funny how personal opinion varies. Today’s Chicago Trib had an article on the proposed flags. Unsolicited, my wife just commented on how much she likes the current flag and wishes they do not get rid of the eagle. Tastes certainly differ. I’m not sure how much they can be described as good or bad. Maybe I’m too much of a traditionalist - tho I try to NOT reject change in a kneejerk manner. Instead, I wish change to be an improvement. Not just for the sake of change. For all of its shortcomings, the IL flag is recognizable (by those who recognize such things) as the flag of IL. The new ones just impress me as flavor-of-the-month rebranding. I suspect that they will seem dated and meaningless quite soon - certainly fewer years than we’ve had the current flag. Then, do we adopt yet ANOTHER flag? **LSL** - were you trying to express an outlandish opinion, or do you really feel that way about the Chicago flag? I always thought it was cool looking, and appreciated the meaning of the lines and stars. And I thought vex societies agreed that it was a good design. But maybe my appreciation simply reflects lifelong familiarity. [Let’s](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Miami) [compare](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Florida). Might I suggest [an update?](https://www.flickr.com/photos/stevenm_61/1469718754) ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/312 "2025-01-09T15:33:37Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > [the Arizona flag] could use a little more contrast or, as you say, a white border or something to make it visually distinct. It does kind of bleed into the red yellow of the top half. Thinking about it, they should give the star a yellow border. Same color as the rays. That means not introducing an additional color. Besides, a white border will blend into the yellow rays at a distance anyway, so don’t bother to make them distinct. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/313 "2025-01-09T15:34:24Z")
If they want to keep the current look and feel of the state, they could simplify it by just having an eagle and a shield with 21 stars representing Illinois as the 21st state. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/314 "2025-01-09T15:53:18Z")
Seems apropos for this thread to observe that when considering the best attributes of Switzerland, their flag is a big plus! ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/315 "2025-01-09T16:59:40Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > I give them props for not taking themselves too seriously. I actually suspect that, despite the amateurish design, they _were_ taking it seriously back when it was created. It features (awkwardly) what the city is known for: - The Packers football team - The dairy industry - The paper-making industry - The fishing and shipping industries - The Northwoods ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2025, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/316 "2025-01-10T22:30:11Z")
Voting is now open for the Illinois flag. Go to [here](https://www.ilsos.gov/special/IFC/home.html) and hit the “Vote Now” button. You can vote for one flag once every 24 hours. ---
**Author:** ![Bayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bayaker/32/3454_2.png) [@Bayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2025, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/317 "2025-01-11T14:56:09Z")
My only connection with Illinois is that my family drove through it about fifty-five years ago. We _may_ have stopped for gas(or to pee). And they want me to vote on their flag? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2025, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/318 "2025-01-11T15:50:59Z")
> [@Bayaker](#): > > And they want me to vote on their flag? What’s wrong with Flaggy McFlagface winning the vote? 😆 🤪 ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2025, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/319 "2025-01-11T16:02:06Z")
> [@Bayaker](#): > > My only connection with Illinois is that my family drove through it about fifty-five years ago. We _may_ have stopped for gas(or to pee). Amazingly, my only connection with Illinois is almost exactly the same, the only difference is mine was 7 years earlier. (I assume making a flight connection at O’Hare doesn’t count as a connection to the state.) > [@](#): > > And they want me to vote on their flag? Didn’t stop me from voting on it. I’ll probably vote again for my second choice. I’m trying to encourage good flag making. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2025, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/320 "2025-01-11T18:31:23Z")
Why would Illinois want non-Illinoisians to vote on the flag? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694.md?page=17)