# The Great Flag Debate of Utah (now moved on to additional states, currently IL) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 4, 2023, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694 "2023-03-04T01:08:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/21 "2023-03-04T15:41:16Z")
Yeah, I thought that link was an odd choice. Try this: > **[State flags List - 50states.com](https://www.50states.com/flag/)** > > State Flags list with Images and facts ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/22 "2023-03-04T15:43:06Z")
> [@fordgt100](#): > > They should look at the state flag of New Mexico. I love our flag too, but maybe replacing the Zia sun with drug paraphernalia would be more honest. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/23 "2023-03-04T16:18:56Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > New Mexico has an excellent state flag. I’m also a big fan of Ohio’s, and would be even if I didn’t live here. > > I’m not crazy about the proposed new Utah flag - it does look a bit too sleek and corporatized - but I agree it would be an improvement over the current one. Agreed on every count. This flag isn’t great, but it’s definitely an improvement over Yet Another Seal on a Blue Background. I think the biggest problem with the new flag is that it’s too representational. I’m not one of those purists who insists that a flag should have no representational art at all (Canada’s maple leaf is pretty good, for instance), but it shouldn’t be detailed art. I think that if the beehive lacked the stripes, and it was just one mountain peak instead of a jagged ridge, it’d look better. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/24 "2023-03-04T18:56:57Z")
You need to click the Oregon link to discover that the front and back of the flag have different images. Go Beaver State! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/25 "2023-03-04T19:00:19Z")
They should replace the name of the state. It would become the state with the shortest name and alphabetically last. ---
**Author:** ![abcdefghij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@abcdefghij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abcdefghij)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/26 "2023-03-04T19:53:27Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Given that it’s Utah, more likely hot cocoa mugs and T-shirts… [“And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly” (Doctrine and Covenants 89:9)](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/89?lang=eng&id=9#p9) ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/27 "2023-03-04T20:24:50Z")
It is better than the current flag but even better would be: White upper half (snowpeaked mountains), medium blue bottom half (Great Salt Lake) with an idealized beehive in the center. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/28 "2023-03-04T20:51:47Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > They should replace the name of the state. It would become the state with the shortest name and alphabetically last. Members of the Zia tribe have misgivings about honkies using their symbol. They really don’t want a bunch of outsiders using their name. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/29 "2023-03-04T21:14:54Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > better than the current flag but even better would be: White upper half (snowpeaked mountains), medium blue bottom half (Great Salt Lake) with an idealized beehive Ah, but, you’re thinking like an actual vexillologist, as opposed to the proponents who, as the OP mentions, are thinking like brand marketeers. > [@silenus](#): > > > [@dolphinboy](#): > > > > No separation of church and state? > > In _Utah_? Actually, it tells me that this redesign was organic to Utah, in that it did not follow what happened with Georgia and Mississippi where they shoehorned an “In God We Trust” into the flags as an amendment that is usually pushed by the conservative legislation-tank ALEC to _any_ law regarding state symbols. And since the beehive has been in the State Seal since inception, I’ll accept it as an allusion to the settlement history: the basic question would wind up on whether it’s a symbol _of the CJCLDS itself_, or a symbol of _the community_ that the sect founded. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/30 "2023-03-04T21:24:20Z")
Personally, I like our (California) state flag. Too bad we killed all the grizzlies. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/31 "2023-03-04T21:32:25Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > whether it’s a symbol _of the CJCLDS itself_ It is unambiguously a religious symbol. From Mormon sources: > The beehive came to be a symbol for both the State of Utah and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints [Beehive Symbol - Mormonism, The Mormon Church, Beliefs, & Religion - MormonWiki](https://www.mormonwiki.com/Beehive_Symbol) > The beehive is one of the most common and enduring symbols within Mormonism, used ubiquitously. > **[The Symbolism of the Beehive in Latter-day Saint Tradition - BYU Studies](https://byustudies.byu.edu/article/the-symbolism-of-the-beehive-in-latter-day-saint-tradition/)** > > This photo essay presents Brinkerhoff's inspiring photos of beehives in significant Mormon places. For early Mormons, the beehive symbolized the kingdom of God and was used as an architectural feature, in publications and discourse, on gravestones,... ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/32 "2023-03-04T22:11:31Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > Personally, I like our (California) state flag. Too bad we killed all the grizzlies. Well, you have four left, guarding the Klamath River bridge. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/33 "2023-03-04T22:14:37Z")
California has a really good flag, I think any state flag that has origins from the 1800’s or earlier automatically is a good state flag. Same with Texas. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/34 "2023-03-04T22:28:06Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Yeah, I thought that link was an odd choice. Try this: I like- Alaska, New Mexico, California, Arizona, Maryland, & South Carolina. I hate- Alabama (racist), & North Carolina (racist). I am not a fan- of the many states that just have their state seal. > [@Asuka](#): > > California has a really good flag, I think any state flag that has origins from the 1800’s or earlier automatically is a good state flag. Same with Texas. Yeah, altho Texas kinda looks like it is coping the CSA, it is more the other way. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/35 "2023-03-04T22:28:38Z")
I count at least 4 state flags with crosses on them. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/36 "2023-03-04T22:33:09Z")
South Carolina is the strangest one if you don’t know the origin of the palm tree and crescent moon. It looks like it should be the flag of an Islamic state with desert oases. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/37 "2023-03-04T22:47:48Z")
Knowing all the trouble Procter and Gamble has had with their “Satanic” crescent moon logo, I’m half-surprised somebody from the Xian Fundamentalist wacko camp hasn’t already started a thing about the “Satanic” origins of the SC flag. See here for background: > **[Procter & Gamble | Logo myth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procter_%26_Gamble#Logo_myth)** > > P&G's former logo originated in 1851 as a crude cross that barge workers on the Ohio River painted on cases of P&G star candles to identify them. P&G later changed this symbol into a trademark that showed a man in the Moon overlooking 13 stars, said to commemorate the original 13 colonies. > The company received unwanted media publicity in the 1980s due to rumors, spread largely by Amway distributors, that the Moon-and-stars logo was a satanic symbol. The accusation was based on a particular passa... ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/38 "2023-03-05T02:51:46Z")
Here is my proposed Utah flag [![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/kOrzUOH.jpeg "Imgur: The magic of the Internet") ](https://imgur.com/kOrzUOH) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/39 "2023-03-05T02:57:18Z")
needs ripples in the blue, and maybe a seagull (state bird) perched on the hive ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/40 "2023-03-05T03:04:58Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Here is my proposed Utah flag I like it. I did kind of like the “red rock” part, though. I think the rock formations and canyons are as much an iconic part of Utah (if not more so) than the Salt Lake and the mountains. How about 3 stripes, with the bottom one the actual orange-red color of Navajo sandstone to make it more distinctive than the ubiquitous red-white-blue. > **[Navajo Sandstone - Canyonlands National Park (U.S. National Park Service)](https://www.nps.gov/cany/learn/nature/navajo.htm)** > **[Winter at the Wave](https://misadventureswithandi.com/winter-at-the-wave/)** > > Winter at the Wave Arizona USA.Winter provides the best opportunity to win the daily lottery for visiting the Wave. It is so beautiful at this time of year especially if you get snow! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694.md?page=3)