# The Great Flag Debate of Utah (now moved on to additional states, currently IL) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 4, 2023, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694 "2023-03-04T01:08:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2023, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/101 "2023-04-06T16:11:14Z")
And Liberia’s flag is too similar to the US’s. > **[Flag of Liberia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Liberia)** > > The flag of Liberia or the Liberian flag, sometimes called the Lone Star, bears a close resemblance to the flag of the United States, representing Liberia's founding by former black slaves from the United States and the Caribbean. They are both a part of the stars and stripes flag family. > The Liberian flag has similar red and white stripes, as well as a blue square with a white star in the canton. It was adopted on 24 August 1847. > The flag of Liberia was designed and hand-stitched by a committ... Too similar flags has long been a hazard of vexillology. Or even identical flags, as Indonesia and Monaco currently have (red over white horizontal bicolor). Poland’s flag is the reverse (white over red bicolor). At the 1936 Olympics, Liechtenstein discovered their flag was identical to Haiti’s (blue over red horizontal bicolor), so they added a crown in the upper left. The same issue came up in the early days of heraldry, with everyone unilaterally adopting whatever coat of arms they wanted. The solution was to give heralds, as organized in the College of Arms, the authority to approve them. > **[College of Arms](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_of_Arms)** > > The College of Arms, or Heralds' College, is a royal corporation consisting of professional officers of arms, with jurisdiction over England, Wales, Northern Ireland and some Commonwealth realms. The heralds are appointed by the British Sovereign and are delegated authority to act on behalf of the Crown in all matters of heraldry, the granting of new coats of arms, genealogical research and the recording of pedigrees. The College is also the official body responsible for matters relating to t... ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2023, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/102 "2023-04-06T18:51:08Z")
The Royal Standard is quite impressive. I like the Plastic Man lions. And is there any other country whose flag has boobs? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2023, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/103 "2023-04-06T19:14:49Z")
Is it not a “canton” if the field does not cover half the width of the standard? ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2023, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/104 "2023-04-06T19:21:38Z")
Technically, a “canton” covers about 1/9 of the field (1/3 of the height, 1/3 of the width [give or take]). The blue portion of the US flag should be technically be called a “quarter” (1/2 of the height, 1/2 of the width [give or take]). ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2023, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/105 "2023-04-06T19:47:03Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > And is there any other country whose flag has boobs? The State of Virginia, in the singular. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2023, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/106 "2023-04-06T21:03:07Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > [Flag of Liberia - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Liberia) > > Too similar flags has long been a hazard of vexillology. Or even identical flags, as Indonesia and Monaco currently have (red over white horizontal bicolor). Poland’s flag is the reverse (white over red bicolor). And Cote d’Ivoire is the Irish flag, just mirrored left to right (or inverted). Personally, I consider that the absolute unforgivable sin for a flag. The whole point of a flag is to uniquely identify a single entity. Any country that adopted a flag some other country was already using should be forced to change it. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2023, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/107 "2023-04-06T22:27:18Z")
When I was a kid I wondered just how many countries in WW1 would be confused back when the country identification marks on planes instead of a roundel was just the national flag. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2023, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/108 "2023-04-07T12:28:33Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > And Liberia’s flag is too similar to the US’s. Not to mention Malaysia’s (Liberia is at least acknowledging its origins). > **[Flag of Malaysia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Malaysia)** > > The national flag of Malaysia, also known as the Stripes of Glory (Malay: Jalur Gemilang), is composed of a field of 14 alternating red and white stripes along the fly and a blue canton bearing a crescent and a 14-point star known as the Bintang Persekutuan (Federal Star). The 14 stripes, of equal width, represent the equal status in the federation of the 13 member states and the federal territories, while the 14 points of the star represent the unity among these entities. The crescent repr Th... ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/109 "2023-04-08T20:47:37Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > > [@markn\_1](#): > > > > And is there any other country whose flag has boobs? > > The State of Virginia, in the singular. Nitpick: if you’re gonna capitalize, it’s the Commonwealth of Virginia. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/110 "2023-04-08T21:16:09Z")
Vexillology is fascinating. Though not about state flags per se, this TED talk is well worth watching to get insight on the topic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnv5iKB2hl4 For some effing reason Discobot sez: > An error occurred: Sorry, you can’t embed media items in a post. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/111 "2023-04-08T22:08:38Z")
I watched that talk and I also recommend it. During it, I wondered what Portland OR’s flag was, so I googled it and was pleasantly surprised. In fact, he showed it as a good example in the later part of the talk. I don’t get down to Portland very often, but I can’t remember having seen it around. Too bad. > **[Flag of Portland, Oregon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Portland,_Oregon)** > > The city flag of Portland, Oregon, consists of a green field on which is placed a white four-pointed star (a truncated hypocycloid) from which radiate blue stripes, each bordered by L-shaped yellow elements. Narrow white fimbriations separate the blue and yellow elements from each other and from the green background. The official ordinance specifies a height of 3 feet and a length of 5 feet. > City ordinance 176874, adopted September 4, 2002, designates the design and its symbolism. Green stands f... Where I actually live is in Hillsboro and apparently we don’t have a flag. But we do have a seal which is simple enough to make a good flag. I see it around frequently, mostly on city vehicles and street signs. Someone took the seal, which is the part in the circle, and suggested it as the city flag on reddit: > **[r/vexillology - A Flag for Hillsboro Oregon](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/9t3alk/a_flag_for_hillsboro_oregon/)** > > 11 votes and 6 comments so far on Reddit ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/112 "2023-04-09T01:52:50Z")
Just me or does anyone else see a Swastika in that flag? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/113 "2023-04-09T02:32:07Z")
:: shrugs :: I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/114 "2023-04-09T02:55:40Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Just me or does anyone else see a Swastika in that flag? Which “that flag?” There are lots in this thread. If you’re referring to either of the Oregon ones, the answer for me is “No”. Although almost any 90-degree cross motif with a hint of diagonality can trigger awareness of Nazi symbology. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/115 "2023-04-09T03:02:14Z")
To me that proposed Hillsboro flag looks like it should be the flag of Holiday Inn. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2023, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/116 "2023-04-10T01:16:31Z")
The Portland flag wouldn’t be very good as a national flag, but standards need to be a bit lower for city flags, because there are so many of them and you need to absolutely respect the uniqueness rule. So I’d say Portland is pretty good, as city flags go. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2023, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/117 "2023-04-10T02:45:39Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Just me or does anyone else see a Swastika in that flag? As LSLGuy mentioned, I for one find it easy to see swastikas in almost any pinwheel-type or offset-cross design with four symmetrical arms, including the Portland flag. But the vast majority of them, including the Portland flag and traditional Indian svastika figures with dots in between the arms, don’t look similar enough to the Nazi Hakenkreuz to suggest any Nazi-ish vibe to me. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2023, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/118 "2023-04-10T04:04:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So I’d say Portland is pretty good, as city flags go. Yes, much better than about 95% of the city flags out there. That video was apparently made before 2017, since he showed the Pocatello flag, which was voted worst city flag by vexillologists. But Pocatello got a new flag in 2017, which is much better. However, it would be improved by white fimbriations between the red and blue parts: > **[Flag of Pocatello, Idaho](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Pocatello,_Idaho)** > > The flag of Pocatello is the official flag of the city of Pocatello, Idaho, United States. The present flag was adopted on July 20, 2017, replacing the previous flag, used unofficially from 2001 to 2017. The former flag was considered by a 2004 survey of the North American Vexillological Association to be the worst of 150 selected US city flags. The current flag is commonly known as the Mountains Left, while the previous flag (used until 2017) was known as the Proud to be Pocatello. > The secon... ---
**Author:** ![Author\_Balk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Author\_Balk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Author_Balk)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2023, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/119 "2023-04-10T15:04:18Z")
Back to the Utah flag. I just learned that the flag was wrong for about 90 years. Apparently a flag maker made a mistake in 1922 related to the placement of one of the dates on the flag. All subsequent flags followed the mistaken version. It wasn’t until 2011 that they fixed it. ---
**Author:** ![Redcanoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b487fb/32.png) [@Redcanoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redcanoe)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2023, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/120 "2023-04-10T16:25:58Z")
I live in Hillsboro also. That crazy H is everywhere, even planted in daffodils out on Hwy 26. I guess we’re getting our money’s worth. I’m sure we spent a fortune in consultants to come up with it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694.md?page=7)