# The Great Flag Debate of Utah (now moved on to additional states, currently IL) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 4, 2023, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694 "2023-03-04T01:08:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/161 "2023-10-04T18:57:11Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > But within any display of state flags that simply looks like patriotic bunting. I would not even recognize it _as_ a flag much less Ohio’s flag if I saw it mixed in with a bunch of the other states’ efforts. If I saw the 50 US state flags flying in random order, the ones I could pick out are Ohio, Washington, California, Maryland, Connecticut and Massachusetts. Ohio’s flag is distinctive. ETA: And New Mexico and Alaska. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/162 "2023-10-05T00:30:43Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Any best-state-flags list that doesn’t at least _mention_ Ohio is, by definition, wrong. Yeah, you might think it’s great. You might think it’s terrible. But there’s just no way that you think it’s normal. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/163 "2023-10-05T00:48:45Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Ohio’s flag is distinctive. That’s the one with the fish poking it’s tongue out, yes, no? I would have thought the primary mark of a good flag is that, in a military conflict your allies don’t fire on your troops because they can’t distinguish your sovereignty. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/164 "2023-10-05T00:50:39Z")
I think Ohio’s flag wins the _“easiest to press into service as a superhero’s cape”_ contest. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/165 "2023-10-05T19:04:48Z")
Yet another point (well, two) in its favor! ---
**Author:** ![gnarator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gnarator/32/8266_2.png) [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/166 "2023-11-21T14:23:31Z")
Minnesota’s new flag designs are being [reviewed by a panel today](https://www.mprnews.org/story/2023/11/21/minnesota-state-flag-seal-finalists-being-picked). The goal is to pick 5 finalists from the [thousands of submissions](https://www.mprnews.org/story/2023/11/08/minnesota-state-flag-public-submissions-revealed), some of which are good, some bad, some hilarious, and some tongue firmly in cheek: [![](https://img.apmcdn.org/a2749d2511a26fb471934e63e5547c34e9c005a3/uncropped/6fa330-20231108-flag-submissions-b04-webp900.webp) ](https://img.apmcdn.org/a2749d2511a26fb471934e63e5547c34e9c005a3/uncropped/6fa330-20231108-flag-submissions-b04-webp900.webp) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/167 "2023-11-21T14:29:20Z")
Should be clearly blood red. 🩸 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/168 "2023-11-22T01:01:41Z")
California should have no objection. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/169 "2023-11-22T01:17:14Z")
Never Mind. ---
**Author:** ![gnarator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gnarator/32/8266_2.png) [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/170 "2023-11-22T22:30:10Z")
…and here are the finalists. Color me underwhelmed. [https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-lifestyle/here-are-the-six-finalists-for-the-new-minnesota-state-flag](https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-lifestyle/here-are-the-six-finalists-for-the-new-minnesota-state-flag) [![](https://bringmethenews.com/.image/ar_233:100%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cg_faces:center%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_3840/MjAyMzgzMjQ0Njg2MDA5NDEy/state-flag-designs.webp) ](https://bringmethenews.com/.image/ar_233:100%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cg_faces:center%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_3840/MjAyMzgzMjQ0Njg2MDA5NDEy/state-flag-designs.webp) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/171 "2023-11-22T22:42:47Z")
The two in the centre are not horrible. I presume the imbalance in the image in the middle bottom panel is from its being cut off, and not because the star-thing is off-centre. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/172 "2023-11-22T22:48:47Z")
I presume that there’s some sort of locally-well-known significance to eight-pointed stars. And also to drab, boring color schemes. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/173 "2023-11-22T22:49:02Z")
I like the three at the top, and the one in the middle of the bottom row; though shouldn’t green be down and blue be up if we’re trying to represent the grass and the sky? Guess we’re not representing that.… ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/174 "2023-11-22T22:53:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I presume that there’s some sort of locally-well-known significance to eight-pointed stars. Apparently, “Star of the North” is a nickname that the government/tourism board uses. > shouldn’t green be down and blue be up if we’re trying to represent the grass and the sky? I would speculate that the blue is supposed to represent lakes and rivers. ---
**Author:** ![gnarator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gnarator/32/8266_2.png) [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/175 "2023-11-22T23:10:43Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > The two in the centre are not horrible. I presume the imbalance in the image in the middle bottom panel is from its being cut off, and not because the star-thing is off-centre. Yes, cut off. You can see the full design in the link: [![](https://bringmethenews.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_700/MjAyMzgzMTc3MzA4Nzc1NDM2/screen-shot-2023-11-21-at-83201-pm.webp) ](https://bringmethenews.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_700/MjAyMzgzMTc3MzA4Nzc1NDM2/screen-shot-2023-11-21-at-83201-pm.webp) > [@Chronos](#): > > I presume that there’s some sort of locally-well-known significance to eight-pointed stars. And also to drab, boring color schemes. Not really. The state motto is _L’etoile Du Nord_, Star of the North, so I presume they are stars, with some also doubling as snowflakes. Though I thought snowflakes have 6 sides. Blue and green for lakes and forests, I presume. > [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > I like the three at the top, and the one in the middle of the bottom row; though shouldn’t green be down and blue be up if we’re trying to represent the grass and the sky? > > Guess we’re not representing that.… Could be a lake in the forest, Land of 10,000 lakes and all. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/176 "2023-11-22T23:14:33Z")
I wonder if either the tilte needs to be changed, or have the Minnesota stuff moved to a new thread. Anyways, I agree the choices are underwhelming. Aesthetically I most like the snowflake+star one, but to me it doesn’t quite look like a complete flag. The split wavy one looks the most flag like to me, though perhaps if the same colors were used with the one with the reverse chevron and three stripes, I would like that one. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/177 "2023-11-22T23:28:24Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > I would speculate that the blue is supposed to represent lakes and rivers. Minnesota means “Cloudy/Sky-Tinted Waters” so many used it to represent “Minnesota”. I think others used it for the 10,000 Lakes or headwaters of the Mississippi River. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/178 "2023-11-23T00:12:05Z")
🎵 > From the Land of Sky-Blue Waters > [several variations in the lyrics over the years] > Hamm’s, the beer refreshing > Hamm’s! 🎶 ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/179 "2023-11-23T01:47:39Z")
Apart from the fact that it deviates severely from the general principles of vexillology, I kind of like the one at the upper right. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694/180 "2023-11-23T07:09:08Z")
The one in the upper left has the problem of putting white on yellow. There’s a very good reason that’s against the rules of heraldry and it applies to flags too. (It’s hard to distinguish the two colors from a distance.) The guy who designed it actually made a flag. I’ve seen it and it has that exact problem. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-flag-debate-of-utah-now-moved-on-to-additional-states-currently-il/980694.md?page=10)