# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 116
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2021, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2302 "2021-08-31T17:39:50Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > If you want a seaplane, there are turbine mallards for sale – probably could get a custom interior: > [https://www.mallardaircraft.com/](https://www.mallardaircraft.com/) Nice, but I’d rather have an Albatross. [The Albatross Lady - Florida Airparks, Airport Properties, Aviation Real Estate, Aerodrome, Property for Sale](http://albatrosslady.com/) (Really, I’d rather have a PBY-5A Catalina.) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2021, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2303 "2021-08-31T17:51:31Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Nice, but I’d rather have an Albatross. That’s what Jimmy Buffett said, too. [Hemisphere Dancer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemisphere_Dancer) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2021, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2304 "2021-08-31T17:54:21Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Nice, but I’d rather have an Albatross. > [The Albatross Lady - Florida Airparks, Airport Properties, Aviation Real Estate, Aerodrome, Property for Sale](http://albatrosslady.com/) > > (Really, I’d rather have a PBY-5A Catalina.) Yeah, an Albatross would make way more sense. I saw one at Oshkosh that replaced the radar nose with an observation bubble. I just keep imagining what it would be like to lounge in luxury looking out those huge observation bubbles on a Catalina. Plus they remind me of the [Sikorsky S-42 flying boat](https://airandspace.si.edu/sites/default/files/images/14223h.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2021, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2305 "2021-08-31T19:00:50Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > A twin Otter is transportation and nowhere near as big. A Catalina is an Amphibian with a lot of personality. imagine looking out one of the bubble canopies or laying out on the wing with a picnic basket in a beautiful Mediterranean harbor. You can put a Twin Otter on amphibious floats. And how much cabin room is there in a Catalina? It doesn’t really look like it would be all that spacious. Among the Twin Otter, the Catalina, and the various Grummans I’d be curious how much payload and usable volume each one has inside. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2021, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2306 "2021-08-31T22:36:47Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > You can put a Twin Otter on amphibious floats and it’s still transportation. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > And how much cabin room is there in a Catalina? It doesn’t really look like it would be all that spacious. It’s 2 or 3 times the size of a Twin Otter. [Layout.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpbycatalina.com%2Fspecifications%2F&psig=AOvVaw1N6rIWL5lbtpxAAMHT1eRp&ust=1630535317887000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAYQjRxqFwoTCKC5ksan3PICFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD)[Interior](https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DAV-CBm7YkDg&psig=AOvVaw1N6rIWL5lbtpxAAMHT1eRp&ust=1630535317887000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAYQjRxqFwoTCKC5ksan3PICFQAAAAAdAAAAABAI). ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2021, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2307 "2021-08-31T23:30:45Z")
Ah ha! I found the more in depth article I was thinking of yesterday: [http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/424/Sweet-Dreams-and-Nightmares.aspx](http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/424/Sweet-Dreams-and-Nightmares.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2021, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2308 "2021-08-31T23:36:45Z")
> [@WildaBeast](#): > > [http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/424/Sweet-Dreams-and-Nightmares.aspx](http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/424/Sweet-Dreams-and-Nightmares.aspx) As you can see from the pictures, the Catalina has a much higher BAR than the Twin Otter (Bikini Asspect Ratio) ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2309 "2021-09-01T00:03:51Z")
Otter (300): Length: 51 ft; empty: 7514lb; MTOW: 12,500 lb (military 14,000 lb) Catalina: Length: 63 ft; empty: 20,910 lb; MTOW: 35,420 lb Note that the Otter specs are I believe the land version and floats are going to add weight (IMHO flying boats are just cooler than float planes) Brian ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2310 "2021-09-01T00:19:00Z")
The Catalina has a much farther range plus a better bomb load than the Twin Otter. I love the view of the Pyramids through the observation blisters. That’s got to be one of the greatest aviation photographs ever. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2311 "2021-09-01T00:42:39Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > As you can see from the pictures, the Catalina has a much higher BAR than the Twin Otter (Bikini Asspect Ratio) Until you realize those models would be around 90 years old today, if still alive at all. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2312 "2021-09-01T03:00:34Z")
> [@WildaBeast](#): > > Until you realize those models would be around 90 years old today, if still alive at all. Yes. Millionaires own Twin Otters. It might take a Billionaire or a dedicated group of people to keep a Catalina going. There are a number of WW-II military aircraft running around. You have to really want something like a B-25 to invest the time and money to own it. The nice thing is it’s getting easier to reproduce a part when it breaks. I’m amazed at what Jay Leno has done with some of his cars. it wasn’t too long ago that some of them were beyond repair. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2313 "2021-09-01T03:23:10Z")
I meant the girls in bikinis, not the planes. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2314 "2021-09-01T03:45:10Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > (IMHO flying boats are just cooler than float planes) Flying boats do have a certain retro appeal, I admit. But I did an internship at a company that builds floats, so I have a soft spot in my heart for them. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2315 "2021-09-01T03:47:56Z")
> [@WildaBeast](#): > > I meant the girls in bikinis, not the planes. DOH. I’m definitely getting older. I spent more time looking at the lines of the plane. Maybe it’s the giant bulbous observation blisters. Yeah, that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2316 "2021-09-01T10:46:47Z")
For something more modern (though smaller), there is the Dornier Seastar – it might even get made (don’t hold your breath): > **[Dornier Seastar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornier_Seastar)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > The Dornier Seastar is a turboprop-powered amphibious aircraft built largely of composite materials. Developed by Claudius Dornier Jr \[de\] of Germany, it first flew in 1984. The design is owned by Claudius Jr's son, Conrado, who founded Dornier Seawings AG (now Dornier Seawings) to continue work on the project after two previous firms, Claudius Dornier Aircraft and Dornier Composite Aircraft, both went into bankruptcy. Development of the aircraft ... Or retrofit a Canadair CL-415? > **[Canadair CL-415](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadair_CL-415)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > > The Canadair CL-415 (Super Scooper, later Bombardier 415) and the De Havilland Canada DHC-515 are a series of amphibious aircraft built originally by Canadair and subsequently by Bombardier and Viking Air, and De Havilland Canada. The CL-415 is based on the Canadair CL-215 and is designed specifically for aerial firefighting; it can perform various other roles, such as search and rescue and utility transport. > Development of the CL-415 began in... Brian ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2317 "2021-09-01T15:26:06Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > Or retrofit a Canadair CL-415? I was thinking of the same plane but couldn’t think of what it was called. As for the Dornier Seastar, maybe a tail number change before trying to sell the concept to investors. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2318 "2021-09-02T16:49:05Z")
^ Heh. Good point. I’d missed that. > [@Magiver](#): > > > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > > > And how much cabin room is there in a Catalina? It doesn’t really look like it would be all that spacious. > > It’s 2 or 3 times the size of a Twin Otter. [Layout.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpbycatalina.com%2Fspecifications%2F&psig=AOvVaw1N6rIWL5lbtpxAAMHT1eRp&ust=1630535317887000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAYQjRxqFwoTCKC5ksan3PICFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD)[Interior](https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DAV-CBm7YkDg&psig=AOvVaw1N6rIWL5lbtpxAAMHT1eRp&ust=1630535317887000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAYQjRxqFwoTCKC5ksan3PICFQAAAAAdAAAAABAI). Interesting - the one in your second link has four engines, not two. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2319 "2021-09-02T18:15:07Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Interesting - the one in your second link has four engines, not two. [four-engine PBY Mod (airbum.com)](http://www.airbum.com/articles/ArticleBirdPBY.html) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2320 "2021-09-02T21:04:02Z")
Aha! Thank you, **Johnny**. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2321 "2021-09-02T21:49:54Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Interesting - the one in your second link has four engines, not two. Good eye. I completely missed that. Only one of them made. And they used Lycomings. A very odd arrangement. Why bother if it exceeds water landing capacity. I’d love to see the restoration pan out with just the 2 engines. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=115) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=117)