# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 118
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2342 "2021-09-09T17:23:32Z")
This is not General Aviation, but… [Navy helicopter rotor hit flight deck in incident that killed five sailors (yahoo.com)](https://www.yahoo.com/news/navy-helicopter-rotor-hit-flight-151000506.html) The article cites the [Navy Safety Center document](https://navalsafetycenter.navy.mil/Portals/29/Documents/Mishap_Stats090121.pdf): > • 31 Aug 2021 (IVO San Diego, CA) MH-60S touched down onboard CVN-72. Experienced side-to-side vibrations causing main rotor to strike flight deck. A/C fell over side. 1 x recovered, 5 x missing Sounds like ground resonance to me. I don’t recall hearing what the sea conditions were, but I don’t think they would have been too heavy this time of year in San Diego. Maybe there was another reason for (presumably) hitting the deck hard on one wheel? ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2343 "2021-09-09T21:27:28Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > There are autoland systems now which work really well from what I have seen. One of the actual pilots here can explain in more detail, but from what I understand “autoland” isn’t actually as simple as the name would imply. A layperson hears that word and envisions the pilot pressing a button and then just sitting there while the plane lands itself. In reality, setting up an “automatic” landing is a lot of work in its own right. > **[We are told that planes basically fly themselves. How true is this? -...](https://askthepilot.com/questionanswers/automation-myths/)** > > You’ve heard it a million times: modern aircraft are flown by computer, and in some not-too-distant future, pilots will be engineered out of the picture altogether. The biggest problem with this line of thought is that it begins with a false premise:... > Yes, it’s true that jetliners are certified for automatic landings — called “autolands” in pilot-speak. But in practice they are rare. Fewer than one percent of landings are performed automatically, and the fine print of setting up and managing one of these landings is something I could spend pages trying to explain. If it were as easy as pressing a button, I wouldn’t need to practice them every year in the simulator or review those highlighted tabs in my manuals. **In a lot of respects, automatic landings are more work-intensive than those performed by hand.** (Bolding mine) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2344 "2021-09-09T21:50:28Z")
Autoland really exists in some private planes today. I see no reason why a commercial jet could not do the same. Perhaps they feel since there are two pilots why pay for expensive automation? I dunno. But it exists, and it works, and it is literally the push of one button to make happen: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/4UFjWOmmeaM/maxresdefault.jpg "TBM 940 HomeSafe™: Live the experience") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UFjWOmmeaM) (that is one example…numerous planes have this system now…but it is not cheap) ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2345 "2021-09-10T03:36:19Z")
> [@WildaBeast](#): > > One of the actual pilots here can explain in more detail, but from what I understand “autoland” isn’t actually as simple as the name would imply. A layperson hears that word and envisions the pilot pressing a button and then just sitting there while the plane lands itself. In reality, setting up an “automatic” landing is a lot of work in its own right. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Autoland really exists in some private planes today. Yes, you are both correct. There is autoland in airliners that has been in use since the 1960s and then there are emergency autoland systems that are more geared towards single pilot aircraft so that the aircraft can be landed by a passenger if the pilot becomes incapacitated. Airline autoland systems are designed for landing in fog / low visibility and require significant participation from the crew. In general I think the whole pilotless aircraft thing has a similar problem to driverless cars. 99% of the technology is there but it may take a long long time to overcome the final hurdles. Single pilot airliners is easy from a technical standpoint, but there are still other issues to deal with around mentioned before such as adequate rest for the single pilot, protecting against rogue pilot events, and providing adequate support for the single pilot in the event of malfunctions. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2021, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2346 "2021-09-12T18:51:01Z")
I don’t even know why you would use it in a small plane. Between instrument approaches and WAAS GPS you can take it down the center line +/- a few feet. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2347 "2021-09-13T01:25:27Z")
The auto land discussed above is a button the passenger can push if the pilot has a heart attack or something. Other than that, it could be useful in a small plane for zero visibility landings, ie fog, but that’s not approved at present AFAIK. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2348 "2021-09-13T02:31:50Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > The auto land discussed above is a button the passenger can push if the pilot has a heart attack or something. I looked up a video on it. It would be the same as auto drive in a car only with a 3rd dimension added plus more variables such as weather and higher speeds. No warm and fuzzies for me but if you’re a passenger without a clue then it’s considerably better than nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2349 "2021-09-13T14:41:42Z")
_Mythbusters_ tackled it, of course: [Could a passenger land a commercial aircraft?](https://www.traveller.com.au/everyone-asks-could-a-passenger-land-a-commercial-aircraft-gtmtov) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2021, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2350 "2021-09-14T13:15:18Z")
“Buckle up, Snookums!” > **[Why more travelers are flying their pets by private jet | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/why-more-travelers-are-flying-their-pets-by-private-jet/index.html)** > > Private jet usage skyrocketed as a result of the travel chaos brought about by the pandemic, and numerous companies say more and more new customers want to bring their pets on board with them. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2021, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2351 "2021-09-15T00:37:48Z")
Hi, my name is Siegfried Fischbacher and I’d like to charter a plane for me and my cat. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2021, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2352 "2021-09-16T06:52:24Z")
While old news this may be of interest to people here. I am a fan of Frontline TV shows: - **Boeing’s Fatal Flaw (full documentary) | FRONTLINE** [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/wXMO0bhPhCw/maxresdefault.jpg "Boeing's Fatal Flaw (full documentary) | FRONTLINE") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXMO0bhPhCw) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2353 "2021-09-21T03:18:27Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > While old news this may be of interest to people here. I am a fan of Frontline TV shows: I watched it 3 times but didn’t get a chance to record it. I only saw 1 statement that I’d call inaccurate. They said the MCAS was a safety feature. I’m not sure that’s an accurate statement. true it pushes the nose over if the climb out is too steep. It’s purpose was to mimic the flight characteristics of earlier models so that no additional training was required. It’s a good documentary to watch. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2021, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2354 "2021-09-25T19:07:10Z")
Came across this on the internet regarding [Kermit Week’s acquisition of a Sikorsky S-43 once owned by Howard Hughes.](https://www.fantasyofflight.com/collection/kermit-weeks/how-i-acquired-the-howard-hughes-sikorsky-s-43/) He’s an… interesting person. Apparently Howard Hughes helped him buy the plane in 2013. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2021, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2355 "2021-09-26T23:49:39Z")
For those who didn’t get it, Howard Hughes died in 1976. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2356 "2021-09-27T00:04:14Z")
That’s what they want you to think! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2357 "2021-09-27T04:38:18Z")
Judge Crater, Amelia Earhart and Jimmy Hoffa _all_ told me it’s fake news. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2358 "2021-09-28T21:26:00Z")
[This video by Business Insider](https://youtu.be/VfMu65G_Kig?t=332) says the Concorde required 22 hours of maintenance for every hour flown. And a 747 required eight hours of maintenance for every hour flown. Both seem like completely mad numbers. I can understand the Concorde needing more maintenance but…22 hours for every hour flown? Is that for real? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2359 "2021-09-28T21:58:07Z")
Well, it’s not like you fly an hour and then stand down for eight or twenty-two hours of maintenance. Or fly ten hours and then get 80-220 hours of maintenance. I suspect those are man-hours rather than clock hours, too. My dad had a Skyhawk and a Skylane. Every 100 flying hours they needed to be inspected. You’d be amazed at how many access covers there are on these aircraft. Then there was the annual inspection (which would count as a 100-hour inspection). [Here’s video of a 100-hour inspection](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmJmwkrkcC8). Of course every 2,000 hours the engines needed to be overhauled. And since both aircraft were IFR certified, the instruments needed periodic inspection. The Concord and 747s are vastly bigger and more complex than a Cessna, so it’s no surprise they take a lot of maintenance. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2360 "2021-09-28T22:27:06Z")
And I suspect the story is counting man-hours, not actual clock hours (ETA, oh you already said that. I need to learn to read more closely before commenting). And it’s probably including the amount of time it takes to complete a [D-check](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_maintenance_checks#D_check), which Wikipedia says typically only occurs every 6-10 years, but can take up to 50,000 man-hours and 2 month to complete. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2361 "2021-10-07T15:46:45Z")
For the PBY Catalina fans here - you may not be able to afford a whole plane, but you can own a little piece of one: [https://www.wright-bros.com/pby-catalina-planetag-trade.html](https://www.wright-bros.com/pby-catalina-planetag-trade.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=117) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=119)