# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 123
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2443 "2021-12-01T00:10:50Z")
Since we don’t have cars capable of driving themselves I don’t see adding a 3rd axis of travel to the process until that’s perfected. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2444 "2021-12-01T00:32:12Z")
At least these don’t have to worry about pedestrians stepping out from between parked cars. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2445 "2021-12-01T00:42:06Z")
I dunno bout that. a flock of geese can take down an airliner. Those little taxis aren’t going to fare well. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2446 "2021-12-01T01:03:58Z")
I think it is much, much easier for a VTOL aircraft to go from A → B under automation than a car. The biggest issue for automated flight is dealing with a complex take-off and landing in crowded airspace. The tech already exists for autolanding planes but that is only in an emergency…the plane broadcasts it is in an emergency and then lands assuming the local airport has cleared the way. For an air taxi I think having some defined routes for VTOL wouldn’t be that tough to do. 3rd axis of travel is trivial for a computer. Mostly you need to avoid traffic coming in to land at the same place at the same time. Seems a solvable problem though. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2447 "2021-12-01T01:29:15Z")
the smaller the plane the more the wind plays havoc with it and the greater the damage birds cause. And at the end of the day I’m not entrusting an expensive flying machine to unknown passengers. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2448 "2021-12-03T14:39:01Z")
They do look _really_ low: > **[US Army and FAA investigating military flyover of NFL game | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/02/politics/nfl-flyover-investigation-military-faa/index.html)** > > The US military and the Federal Aviation Administration are reviewing a flyover of an NFL game last month to determine if the military helicopters flew too low over civilians in violation of aviation regulations. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2449 "2021-12-03T18:45:24Z")
the rules are more relaxed for helicopters but if the stadium has seating al the way around I’d say they screwed up their altitude. Probably scared a few people in the process. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2450 "2021-12-06T17:51:02Z")
When calculating cost per hour to fly a plane (like in [this example](https://www.aircraftcostcalculator.com/AircraftOperatingCosts/172/Dassault+Falcon+900)) does that include the cost of the pilots and any cabin crew? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2451 "2021-12-06T18:44:44Z")
No it doesn’t. That’s the cost to fly the plane. Keep in mind people buy them for private use. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2452 "2021-12-06T19:08:21Z")
Well, some private planes require two pilots so, even if you are a pilot, you still need someone else flying the plane with you and, presumably, you will have to pay them for that. More likely on bigger private jets you are the rich person in the back so pay for two pilots (and probably cabin crew). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2453 "2021-12-07T01:57:31Z")
That’s true but it isn’t part of the operating cost of the plane. You could pay spot labor for a pilot or hire one or more full time to be on call. It’s not really seen as a cost of maintaining the plane. You might as well add in hanger rent, flight attendants,catering, limousines, etc… Now are you eating cheese sandwiches on the flight or Alaskan King Crab? Does that make more sense? The expenses you referenced were from the manufacturer and are meant to be an apples to apples comparison to other aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2454 "2021-12-08T17:58:50Z")
From a 1966 Air India crash: > **[Climber can keep $84,000-worth of jewels he found on Mont Blanc | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/mont-blanc-jewels-climber-scli-intl/index.html)** > > A climber who found a trove of precious stones on Mont Blanc has been given half of the 150,000-euro ($168,700) haul to keep after authorities couldn't find the original owner. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2455 "2021-12-16T18:58:08Z")
Can all commercial planes start their own engines with no external power? Or, do some commercial planes need to be plugged in to external power to start their engines? ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2456 "2021-12-16T19:35:20Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Can all commercial planes start their own engines with no external power? Or, do some commercial planes need to be plugged in to external power to start their engines? Most modern jets can start on their own, often through the use of an Auxiliary Power Unit (APU). That’s a smaller engine in the tail which is used to supply power to avionics and air conditioning before engine start, and also start one or both engines (sometimes the second engine start is powered by the first engine once it’s running, called a “cross gen start”). But I’ve flown jets without APUs, and in that case the airplane was capable of starting on batteries without external power. But it was better to use an outside power source and that was our standard procedure. Battery starts could take longer, cause higher engine temps during start and if something went wrong it could drain the batts such that you might not have enough power to do it again. Most larger planes will have an APU (sometimes more than one) and use them for engine starts. Interestingly, my current bizjet has an APU, but because of how the electrical system was designed, the engines are started through the batteries. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2457 "2021-12-16T20:49:02Z")
–POST REMOVED BY AUTHOR– (for some reason I did not see “delete post” as an option) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2458 "2021-12-17T14:49:09Z")
Since the thread has longe since gone from General Aviation to general aviation, I have a commercial aviation question. Are mobile stairways or airstairs still in use? I can’t remember the last time I saw a mobile stairway, and the last time I remember using the built-in airstairs was getting onto a 727 when I was a kid. It seems it’s all jetways nowadays. (Boarding turboprops, we still walk across the ramp and use the airstairs.) ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2459 "2021-12-17T14:51:18Z")
Mobile stairways are definitely still in use in the Caribbean. Bonaire has big jet service (KLM used to fly 747s there but I doubt it still does) and no jetways. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2460 "2021-12-17T15:17:02Z")
All the time here in Santa Barbara, San Francisco and in Seattle, the three airports I visit the most. I don’t think the CRJs and Q400s are tall enough to use any jetway. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2461 "2021-12-17T15:19:58Z")
they’re still used a great deal in the freight industry because the planes are all out on ramps away from buildings. And of course you need them for Air Force 1 so the President can wave goodbye. Some kind of visual holdover from the days when that’s all you had to work with. “Bye, wish me luck on this tin can” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2462 "2021-12-17T15:44:56Z")
Right. That’s what I meant by ‘turboprops’. Come to think of it, I think they use airstairs for the regional jets at BLI too. I know I asked about airstairs, but I’m actually curious about the mobile stairways they used to use for larger jets (say, 737s and larger). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=122) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=124)