# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 132
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2022, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2623 "2022-04-01T19:31:54Z")
Landing gear is operated by a lever with a wheel shaped knob. GA aircraft don’t follow conventions as rigidly but it is standard across airliners. The button thing seems a bit weird. This guy might have falsified experience but he’s still gone through type training and recurrent training. I can’t think of any button or lever he might have pushed that would somehow separate him from other pilots. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2022, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2624 "2022-04-01T20:16:21Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Landing gear is operated by a lever with a wheel shaped knob. GA aircraft don’t follow conventions as rigidly but it is standard across airliners. I have seen exactly one airplane that had a button for the gear rather than a lever: a Harrier jet. Very tight cockpit, and I’m guessing the decision to go with a button was to save space. > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > I can’t think of any button or lever he might have pushed that would somehow separate him from other pilots. Maybe the one locking the door to the cockpit? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2022, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2625 "2022-04-01T20:19:39Z")
The button is specifically put there to catch people who shouldn’t be in the cockpit. It’s like a ‘trap street’ on a map. 🤡 🤡 🤡 ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2626 "2022-04-02T03:54:21Z")
I happened to be browsing around Google Maps, and I saw the airport in Worcester, MA. Check out the satellite view. Must have been taken during an airshow of some sort; I see a B-17, Lancaster, P-38, and a Spitfire. https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=42.268318,-71.8704933&z=19&output=embed&dg=ntvb ETA: It’s not snowing up in the preview image, but should work if you click on the link. ---
**Author:** ![cytop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f17d59/32.png) [@cytop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cytop)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2627 "2022-04-02T04:30:24Z")
I think, perhaps, that’s a B-24 Liberator rather than a Lancaster. There’s also a B-25 Mitchell. The blue naval plane is a little difficult to make out but, and a WAG, either an F-6 Hellcat/F-8 Bearcat; the wingtips are too square for it to be an F-4 Corsair. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2628 "2022-04-02T05:01:20Z")
> [@cytop](#): > > I think, perhaps, that’s a B-24 Liberator rather than a Lancaster. You’re probably right. I saw the twin tail and thought of the Lancaster first; forgot all about the B-24. ---
**Author:** ![ThisOneGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@ThisOneGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisOneGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2629 "2022-04-03T02:33:51Z")
> [@cytop](#): > > either an F-6 Hellcat/F-8 Bearcat The measurement tool shows a 42 ft wingspan, so too big for a Bearcat, but just right for a Hellcat. Of a bit to the north, another Grumman with the wings folded and something else with folding wings being towed (maybe an A1D Skyraider). ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2022, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2630 "2022-04-06T08:54:41Z")
If the XB-70 Valkyrie was meant to be a bomber…where were the bombs supposed to go? [![](https://nationalinterest.org/sites/default/files/main_images/1280px-north_american_xb-70_above_runway_ecn-792.jpg) ](https://nationalinterest.org/sites/default/files/main_images/1280px-north_american_xb-70_above_runway_ecn-792.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![cytop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f17d59/32.png) [@cytop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cytop)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2022, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2631 "2022-04-06T09:04:16Z")
Carried internally - due to its Mach3+ speed potential external stores were not possible. I would presume the payload was carried somewhere along the centre line. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2022, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2632 "2022-04-06T18:13:27Z")
But where? The back 2/3 of the plane seems intake and engines. Front 1/4 is nose and cockpit. There’s a little space behind the cockpit but before the intakes. Seems really small for a bomb bay but I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2633 "2022-04-06T18:14:24Z")
Here’s a picture of a model. [![](https://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal4/3801-3900/gal3812-XB-70-Tietjen/05.jpg) ](https://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal4/3801-3900/gal3812-XB-70-Tietjen/05.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2022, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2634 "2022-04-06T18:52:17Z")
HAH! I built that model back in the day. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2635 "2022-04-07T00:14:02Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The back 2/3 of the plane seems intake and engines. The area behind the intakes is triangular. It doesn’t mean it’s all open to the engines. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2022, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2636 "2022-04-11T15:15:06Z")
Semper Fi! > **[Aboard The Marine's First F-35B-Packed 'Lightning Carrier' (Updated)](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/45144/dispatch-from-onboard-the-marines-first-f-35b-packed-lightning-carrier)** > > The Marines turned USS Tripoli into a 'Lightning Carrier' packed with over 20 F-35Bs. We were there. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2022, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2637 "2022-04-12T01:01:44Z")
[Jet Blue diverts an international flight from JFK to EWR](https://nypost.com/2022/04/11/jetblue-passengers-seen-on-video-pleading-to-get-off-plane/) after 4 failed landing attempts. Passengers on the low end of happy when they were forced to fly back to JFK for Customs clearance. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2022, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2638 "2022-04-12T01:57:06Z")
Previous company I worked for had a rule. If you couldn’t get in the first time, you were only allowed a second attempt if you had reason to believe the conditions had improved enough that another go would have reasonable chance of being successful. If you couldn’t get in a second time then you could only try for a third if the weather had improved by some specific margin above the minimums such that you were assured of landing. Otherwise you went somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2022, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2639 "2022-04-12T22:25:26Z")
I’ve often wondered if airline pilots get enough sim time to pick up crosswind landings. It’s time consuming to get to an autonomic level of skill. I can’t imagine 4 attempts. . ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2022, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2640 "2022-04-13T17:16:38Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > “A company’s spokewoman said: «We are always running contingency routings for potential events or scenarios». «The Transatlantic option relies on the facilitation of strong seasonal tailwinds at this time of the year in order for the flight time to be between 16 and 17 hours, thereby making it more favorable than the Transpacific route», she added.” FWIW I just saw this: > **[A new world's longest flight is scheduled — but it may never actually happen](https://africa.businessinsider.com/news/a-new-worlds-longest-flight-is-scheduled-andmdash-but-it-may-never-actually-happen/bvjpksv)** > > Cathay Pacific's world's longest flight relies on strong seasonal tailwinds to keep the time under 17 hours, but the winds are already "tapering off." ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2022, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2641 "2022-04-14T01:42:54Z")
I think that airline pilots, because they’re pretty much required to fly regardless of the weather, are regularly exposed to a lot more variable weather conditions than recreational pilots. There are other factors, long haul pilots don’t do anywhere near as many landings as short haul pilots and some regions of the world have more benign weather conditions than others, but in general I think most get adequate hands on experience just by doing the job. Simulators aren’t that great a tool for learning handling skills anyway due to the limitations in the amount of “feel” they can give the pilot. That said, we would periodically do a maximum crosswind landing (35 knots) in the simulator as part of the recurrent training program. It was ok for pointing out some techniques such as putting the cockpit well on the upwind side of the centreline so that the main landing gear is somewhere close to the centreline. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2022, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2642 "2022-04-14T01:43:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’ve often wondered if airline pilots get enough sim time to pick up crosswind landings. It’s time consuming to get to an autonomic level of skill. > > I can’t imagine 4 attempts. I think most pilots who reach the point of being trained in a full-motion simulator, even the least experienced new-hires at airlines, have quite a few crosswind landings in their prior experience. When I made the transition from general aviation to airlines it seemed there were a number of these assumptions. But any weaknesses mostly get ironed out during training, or through experience. The most common instance would be people with little experience in actual IMC (instrument meteorological conditions). It happens, especially for those who trained in places like Arizona - they get their IFR ratings without ever actually penetrating a cloud. That may sound odd or even alarming, but this is the great thing about modern airline training. With basic airman’s knowledge, such a person can be brought up to speed fairly quickly with some experience. And it’s safe, given that they’re likely going to fly with more experienced captains, and under strict rules. As for four attempts… without knowing more about the flight conditions I’m not going to say that’s outrageous. If you have the fuel - sure, try your best to get in until you have to go to an alternate. A missed approach is a normal maneuver, despite what the seemingly terrorized passengers might think. What IS egregious is the passengers having to stay on board and fly another leg just to pass through customs! Good lord, can’t we do better than that in this day and age? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=131) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=133)