# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 150
**Author:** ![ThisOneGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@ThisOneGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisOneGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2983 "2022-09-23T23:58:11Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > When a helicopter is approaching an airport to land there do they need to get in the traffic pattern and line up on a runway or can they just come in from any direction and plop themselves down at their designated spot to park (especially since they cannot really taxi without flying)? Not a helicopter pilot, but have flown fixed wing with helicopters around. Helicopters usually fly a different, lower pattern. Then either land on a designated spot (marked with “H”) or a taxiway. They then “hover-taxi” to the parking spot. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2984 "2022-09-24T00:38:03Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > When a helicopter is approaching an airport to land there do they need to get in the traffic pattern and line up on a runway or can they just come in from any direction and plop themselves down at their designated spot to park (especially since they cannot really taxi without flying)? > [@ThisOneGuy](#): > > Helicopters usually fly a different, lower pattern. It depends. First, FAR 91.126: [91.126(b)(2) Each pilot of a helicopter or a powered parachute must avoid the flow of fixed-wing aircraft.](https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.12) So at an ~~out-of-control~~ uncontrolled airport, you avoid the traffic pattern. I’ve only flown helicopters to and from controlled airports. At those, there were established/accepted routes that did not conflict with the fixed-wing traffic pattern. At VNY, helicopters would land (or come to a hover) on the taxiway near their FBOs. At WJF, I was cleared to land on any non-traffic area. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2985 "2022-09-24T03:46:54Z")
As well, any kind of a fly-in is going to have semi-weird non-standard operating rules to cope with the traffic volume. At big airports the helos sort of operate orthogonal to the airplane traffic. e.g. … Hover-taxi from their parking area to an open-enough paved area where they can apply full power without damaging anything else. Then take off in a direction perpendicular to the airplane runways and zip away from the airport at a couple hundred feet max. Then a couple miles later climb as necessary. Which usually isn’t much. Arrival and landing is similar, assuming decent weather. And although some helos and pilots are totally IFR capable, many helo missions aren’t really IFR-compatible. So no point in taking a fully instrument capable helo into the air if it can’t do its job (aerial surveying, air ambulance, whatever) in the clouds. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2986 "2022-09-26T00:50:20Z")
Here’s something interesting > **[Seaglider Electric Scale Model Makes First Flights In Rhode Island - FLYING...](https://www.flyingmag.com/seaglider-electric-scale-model-makes-first-flights-in-rhode-island/)** > > Boat-plane hybrid vehicles known as seagliders use wing-in-ground-effect technology to fly low over water. and > **[Watch Regent take its prototype electric seaglider out for a test flight](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/21/regent-tests-prototype-electric-sea-glider-video.html)** > > The Regent seaglider accelerates and takes off onto its uniquely architected wings, staying within one wingspan of the surface. An electric WIG machine under development to more or less fill the niche of many floatplanes such as the aging Otter that we recently discussed which crashed in the Puget Sound area. In non-GA news, morons remain commonplace in the general public and also among passengers. > **[American Airlines passenger detained after allegedly assaulting attendant](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/passenger-assault-attendant-detained-fbi-american-airlines-mexico-cabo-rcna48884)** > > Alexander Tung Cuu Le, 33, of Westminster, California, was charged Thursday with one count of interference with flight crew members and attendants, the Department of Justice said. (Caution: Possible self-starting video) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2987 "2022-09-26T01:43:34Z")
Interesting concept. There were experiments with a Grumman Goose seaplane with hydrofoils and water skis way back in the day: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/yolgS1bn7P8/hqdefault.jpg "Seaplane History -Goose") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yolgS1bn7P8) Doing it with a WIG (Wing in Ground-Effect) design is interesting, I wonder if they are really gaining all that much with the hydrofoils, unless the motors don’t have enough power to get a hull of the water alone. I’d also be interested in seeing how it compares to a plain old hydrofoil without the wing. But man, the dynamic ssues witg a hydrofoil dragging in the water are difficult. That Grumman Goose had skis way out in front of the nose to keep it from pitching over when the hydrofoil hit the water. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2988 "2022-09-26T04:36:34Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > An electric WIG machine under development to more or less fill the niche of many floatplanes such as the aging Otter that we recently discussed which crashed in the Puget Sound area. I don’t see this as filling the same niche as current floatplanes. If you have to stay in ground effect, that means staying over water for the whole flight. I could see working on routes like Seattle-Bremerton, Boston-Provincetown, or connecting islands like Martha’s Vineyard or Nantucket. Seems like it would replace boats moreso than floatplanes. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2022, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2989 "2022-09-27T01:26:00Z")
Granted WIGs can’t do inland lake-to-lake ops like a floatplane can. But a lot of floatplanes and amphibs are used in harbor-to-harbor ops in littoral waters. Yes the thing is being built and certificated as a very fast boat, not as a limited-capability aircraft. I’m simply suggesting that many aircraft, and especially elderly aircraft, are in fact being used today as _de facto_ fast boats. Those aircraft are in some danger of being replaced if this thing or its competitors end up working. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2990 "2022-09-29T00:25:47Z")
In more electric airplane news: > **[An all-electric passenger plane completed its first test flight](https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/28/23377053/all-electric-passenger-plane-prototype-first-flight-washington)** > > The aircraft still needs better batteries. Still a long way from reality but a complaint in this thread is most these are paper airplanes. This one flew…if only for a few minutes. Supposedly will have a 150-250 mile range. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2991 "2022-09-29T01:32:28Z")
I look at it as the introduction of a new A/C propulsion system. If the motors show viability and are scalable then other designs will follow. Nobody wants to burn resources on supersonic engines but an electric motor has a future in aviation. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2992 "2022-10-01T16:06:44Z")
[Sofia the 747 infrared telescope has retired](https://simpleflying.com/nasa-boeing-747-sofia-what-now/). I hope it goes to the AF museum in Dayton. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2993 "2022-10-01T22:53:41Z")
> **[Puget Sound floatplane crash: bodies of six of 10 victims recovered](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/30/puget-sound-floatplane-crash-victims)** > > Five bodies identified after crash, with 80% of the plane itself recovered, officials say ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2994 "2022-10-02T07:01:09Z")
I wonder if that’s 6 of the 10 total recovered or 6 of the 10 missing. They recovered 1 of the 10 on day 1. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2995 "2022-10-02T16:32:03Z")
A more exact accounting: 1 found immediately. 5 recovered from the plane. 1 a probable yet to be identified who was washed to shore. So probably 7 of the 10 total recovered. > **[5 additional bodies recovered from Whidbey Island floatplane crash](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/5-additional-bodies-recovered-from-whidbey-island-floatplane-crash/)** > > Officials are investigating whether human remains that washed ashore at Dungeness Spit nearly two weeks after the plane crash are from the seventh victim. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2996 "2022-10-03T00:10:04Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > So probably 7 of the 10 total recovered. Well I was hoping it was the higher of the numbers. It must be awful for the relatives waiting on a body that won’t be viewable. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2997 "2022-10-03T21:05:06Z")
As we say in the business: “Purina crab chow”. Uggh. Nasty situation for all concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2998 "2022-10-03T23:02:43Z")
If anyone gives me shite for buying live crabs to eat, I tell them ‘Given the chance, they’d eat you!’ ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/2999 "2022-10-04T01:41:32Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > In more electric airplane news: > > [An all-electric passenger plane completed its first test flight - The Verge](https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/28/23377053/all-electric-passenger-plane-prototype-first-flight-washington) > > Still a long way from reality but a complaint in this thread is most these are paper airplanes. This one flew…if only for a few minutes. Supposedly will have a 150-250 mile range. Alice now has its own thread: > [@Alice, the first all-electric passenger airplane, takes flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alice-the-first-all-electric-passenger-airplane-takes-flight/972396): > > this is cool … so is everything going to be electric based with n 10 years or so ? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/3000 "2022-10-06T21:31:43Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > If anyone gives me shite for buying live crabs to eat, I tell them ‘Given the chance, they’d eat you!’ Fair is fair. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/3001 "2022-10-09T16:51:26Z")
[**Flying**](https://www.flyingmag.com/faa-issues-emergency-ad-for-de-havilland-otters/) Oct 8 2022 **FAA Issues Emergency AD for de Havilland Otters** - The FAA has issued an [emergency airworthiness directive (AD)](http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/alerts) for owners and operators of de Havilland Canada DHC–3 Otters in response to multiple recent reports of cracks in the left-hand elevator auxiliary spar. - According to the AD, the FAA analysis of the reports indicates immediate AD action is warranted. - “The FAA is issuing this AD to detect and address cracks, corrosion, and previous repairs to the left-hand elevator auxiliary spar,” the AD continues. “The unsafe condition, if not addressed, could result in elevator flutter leading to elevator failure, with consequent loss of control of the airplane.” ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/3002 "2022-10-09T17:28:55Z")
> **[Emergency FAA order points to one possible cause of Whidbey seaplane crash](https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/emergency-faa-order-points-to-a-possible-cause-whidbey-seaplane-crash/)** > > The FAA has issued a warning regarding potential weaknesses in parts of the tail of Otter seaplanes, the same type of aircraft that crashed off Whidbey Island. But note: > The directive is not a result of the investigation into the fatal crash in Mutiny Bay, which killed 10 people but does suggest one possible cause. > > The directive warns that, if not addressed, the cracks and corrosion could lead to a structural failure in the tail and “loss of control of the airplane.” > > A person close to the Mutiny Bay crash investigation said the directive was spurred when mechanics discovered a crack in the tail of another Otter during a routine inspection unrelated to the deadly crash. They have identified the 7 bodies found, but 3 are still missing: > **[Officials ID remains of 7 Whidbey Island floatplane crash victims](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/officials-id-remains-of-7-whidbey-island-floatplane-crash-victims/)** > > Officials on Friday confirmed the identities of the seven people whose bodies have been recovered after last month's floatplane crash off Whidbey Island. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=149) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=151)