# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 214
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2023, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4263 "2023-07-29T20:44:36Z")
I don’t think your link goes to where you planned it to. As I read it, your cite is an airplane accident that is not a collision and is not associated with Oshkosh. Here’s a link to a bit from the same source about the midair > **[Mid-air collision grounds planes for about two hours at EAA AirVenture](https://fox11online.com/news/local/fox-cities/mid-air-collision-grounds-planes-for-about-two-hours-at-eaa-airventure#)** > > OSHKOSH (WLUK) – Authorities are investigating a mid-air collision involving two planes at EAA AirVenture on Saturday.It is not yet known if anyone was injured In an odd coincidence I heard a radial engine approaching here at home this morning. Went out to look and saw a bright yellow T-6 bank overhead at ~1200 feet. Continued south out of sight and earshot. Unrelated to either of the above, the police not far from Oshkosh seem to have encountered the famed Florida Man. 😁 > **[Florida man arrested after high-speed chase across Michigan's Upper Peninsula](https://fox11online.com/news/local/florida-man-arrested-after-high-speed-chase-across-michigans-upper-peninsula-menominee-county-dickinson-stop-sticks-nadeau-township-powers-highway-2#)** > > A Florida man was taken into custody after leading officers on a chase in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. So far from home; so little sense. He’s makin’ DeSantis so proud. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2023, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4264 "2023-07-29T21:13:17Z")
I was at Oshkosh earlier this week and watched the helicopters and gyrocopters flying together at the Ultralight area. I thought one of the helicopters was too close in trail. Wonder if it was the same person. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2023, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4265 "2023-07-30T01:34:48Z")
2 fatalities in the T-6 that went into Lake Winnebago. 2 fatalities in the helicopter that collided with the gyro-copter. The gyro-copter landed on an airplane on the ground with 2 survivors. Not a good day for the airshow at Oshkosh. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2023, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4266 "2023-07-31T01:30:20Z")
The crunch parade just keeps coming. > **[3 dead after plane crashes into California airport hangar while taking off,...](https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/30/us/plane-crash-san-bernardino-county-upland/index.html)** > > A small plane crashed into a California airport hangar as it was taking off Sunday, killing all three people on board, authorities say. I have flown in and out of Cable as a teen. A shortish runway utterly surrounded by houses. There’s no good place to land nearby. **[Google Maps Link](https://goo.gl/maps/3G16g312oTwpcmNo8)**. Further, there’s nowhere on Earth it’s safe to stall/spin into. High VVI ensures the sudden stop at the end is final. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2023, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4267 "2023-07-31T02:47:52Z")
In my area we had a [helicopter crop duster hit power lines](https://www.10tv.com/article/news/local/ohio/helicopter-crash-springfield-ohio/530-ef789d84-2deb-4c55-b5dc-46014b7adece). ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2023, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4268 "2023-07-31T14:57:39Z")
I used to run film through that airport when I was in the courier business. That’s when I first became aware of The Hat. Your only “good” choice if you lose power on take-off is a sharp turn to port and look for a soft spot among the rocks. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2023, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4269 "2023-07-31T15:09:48Z")
Yeah. El Monte & Fullerton were similar. Good luck dodging the power lines lining all the surface streets. Cable at least had the quarry where you might find a flattish-unobstructed spot. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2023, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4270 "2023-07-31T18:54:03Z")
Meanwhile, on Capitol Hill: > **[Empty cockpits, canceled flights, crowded airports: Congress tackles pilot...](https://www.aol.com/empty-cockpits-canceled-flights-crowded-101053243.html)** > > Shortages in flight crews are leading airlines to reduce schedules, resulting in thousands of flight delays and cancellations. ---
**Author:** ![oligArchie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oligarchie/32/21546_2.png) [@oligArchie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oligArchie)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4271 "2023-08-01T17:12:06Z")
I’ve been noticing the sound of (commercial carrier jets’) air brakes recently, and I’m posting to ask if something has changed that would explain me hearing it _more often_. It’s certainly possible that this sound has always been occurring, but my steel-trap memory doesn’t think so. I first moved to this `hood about 7 years ago. We sit about 5 miles from a major airport and under the approach path for one of the facility’s 2 parallel runways. Within my years on the planet, I can’t recall a time I’ve heard a jet’s airbrakes before the relative silence of the pandemic’s empty skies. Now, I hear it all.the.time. It’s a squealing sound not unlike someone locking up their car’s tires on a paved street. I’d say it’s more of a banshee howl, though. My musings/questions so far are: -Procedural change, have the companies abandoned a stabilized approach, and now the planes hurl themselves at the runway and deploy the airbrakes at the last minute to damp their speed? -Equipment change, is there something different about newer model planes and their brakes? -Shape of the airspace? Speed limits changed? -Density of the atmosphere? Density of my own cerebral gray matter? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4272 "2023-08-01T18:44:04Z")
“Airbrakes” isn’t a valid aeronautical term, so I’m trying to figure out what you’re meaning. I’m not complaining about your useage; laymen aren’t expected to know all the best terminology. Are you talking about a noise when airplanes fly over, or a noise after they land? Some airplanes, particularly A320s, have an engine model that at idle thrust produces a distinct howling noise. Perhaps something has changed about which airlines are deploying which kinds of airplanes to your airport? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4273 "2023-08-01T19:21:17Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > “Airbrakes” isn’t a valid aeronautical term, so I’m trying to figure out what you’re meaning. > **[Spoilers And Speedbrakes | SKYbrary Aviation Safety](https://skybrary.aero/articles/spoilers-and-speedbrakes)** > > Definition Spoilers and Speedbrakes are secondary flight control surfaces that can be deployed manually by the pilot or, under certain circumstances, that extend automatically. Speedbrakes are purely drag devices while spoilers simultaneously... > Speedbrakes are high drag devices that are fitted to almost all high performance military aircraft as well as to some commercial aircraft types. In most cases, speedbrakes are fuselage mounted panels which, when selected by the pilot, extend into the airstream to produce drag. Dependant upon the aircraft type, the speed brake(s) may consist of a single panel or symetrically mounted pairs of panels. On the [BA146](https://skybrary.aero/index.php/BAe_146_Family), the speedbrakes are mounted on the tailcone. Speedbrakes may be used during the final approach to touchdown as well as after landing. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4274 "2023-08-01T19:45:52Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > “Airbrakes” isn’t a valid aeronautical term Better tell Hawker that. I’m looking at a cockpit photo of a Hawker 900 and next to the relevant lever it says “Air brake”. In the training materials, that’s the term they use too. Crazy Brits. Or whoever owns Hawker these days. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4275 "2023-08-01T19:46:55Z")
Crazy Brits is right. Airscrews turning anticlockwise and all. 😁 ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4276 "2023-08-01T19:48:18Z")
The Soviets too. I once got a ride in a Yak 52 and that spins the wrong way also. Screwed up all my reflexes for countering left turn tendency. ---
**Author:** ![oligArchie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oligarchie/32/21546_2.png) [@oligArchie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oligArchie)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4277 "2023-08-01T19:56:02Z")
Thanks for the quick replies. The sound is coming from the planes while they’re on the wing, about 1000 feet off the ground and 5 miles from touchdown. The term that Johnny\_L.A linked to is what I was trying to describe. Apologies for the seemingly cryptic term. My quick googling led me to referring to them as _air brakes_. I didn’t question those findings because my buddy would talk about the “air brakes” when landing his Mooney. What am I hearing as these large jets approach? Is it the rapid unwinding of the giant rubber band? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4278 "2023-08-01T20:06:49Z")
FWIW, I think both terms sound silly. ‘Air brakes’ are what you find on a truck. Or, obviously they’re air brakes because they cause drag to slow down. So it seems redundant. ‘Speedbrakes’? Um… Yeah. That’s what brakes are for. But you have to call them something, and ‘spoilers’ was already taken. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4279 "2023-08-01T20:13:31Z")
The noise you are hearing is almost certainly the engines at idle, or being reduced to idle. During that slow-down (“spool-down” in the argot), excess output from the compressor part of the engine is dumped overboard through a set of fairly small ports. In the case of the engines on a 320-series airplane, that produces a semi-high-pitched howl that is not nearly as pronounced on other jets. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4280 "2023-08-01T21:41:24Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The noise you are hearing is almost certainly the engines at idle, or being reduced to idle. Engines to idle 5 miles out? Sounds like a Space Shuttle approach. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4281 "2023-08-01T21:51:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Engines to idle 5 miles out? Sounds like a Space Shuttle approach. Is that not essentially how a [continuous descent approach](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_descent_approach) works? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4282 "2023-08-01T22:01:58Z")
definitely a lot less power juggling along with reduced engine settings but it greatly narrows the window to flare if the engines are at idle. Ef that up even a little and it’s seriously hard on the plane. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=213) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=215)