# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/421 "2014-08-26T14:22:13Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Is there some legitimate reason for these differences, or just “tradition”? I hadn’t thought of it. My first guess is because you don’t want a straight cord to get tangled up in your collective, but that’s just a guess. So I asked the question in my google box. I found [this](http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-390196.html): > [@Gomer Pylot](#): > > I know why the coiled cord is used by helicopter pilots, but I have no clue as to why straight cords are used by plank drivers. I think it’s probably tradition. Planks originally had overhead speakers and a handheld microphone, no headsets. When they started using headsets, there was already a separate mike jack, and it was easy to just add a speaker jack, using two separate plugs from the headset. That’s still the way most fixed-wing are outfitted. It’s inefficient and clumsy, but that’s what they have. Helicopters from the outset used headsets, because it’s not easy or even always possible to grab a mike whenever you need to talk on the radio, because it takes both hands for the controls. Helicopters have always, as far as I know, had a single headset jack for each crewmember, and the headsets have a single plug. If you spend a lot of time with your head out the window, looking places other than straight ahead, a coiled cord works much better, and doesn’t get tangled in the collective. I’m supposed to be working right now, so I haven’t read past that post. It makes sense, though. When I started flying (fixed-wing) we didn’t use headsets. There was already a microphone jack. A pilot might use headphones (no mic.) and use the existing hand-held microphone. I know David Clark still offers headphones. Helicopters are very noisy. I flew, and would fly, a Cessna without a headset, but I wouldn’t want to fly a helicopter without one. Since headsets are the default, why not save a couple of ounces and have a single plug? Only I have a different hypothesis. Helicopters were mainly used by the military early on, and many military aircraft used single plugs. Some pilots wore throat mics, which often/usually had a separate plug; or they used a ‘lollipop’ mic, which also had a separate plug. Many (leather or cloth) helmets though, had a small two-prong jack where the mic. could be plugged in, and had a single plug for the phones and the mic. The throat mic. could be plugged into it, or the helmet might be fitted with a boom mic., or the microphone would be incorporated into the oxygen mask. When fiberglass helmets came about, they had single cords for the phones and mic. By the time helicopters came into general military use, pilots wore hard helmets in them; so it’s natural that civilian helicopters would also use a single plug. I think ‘legacy’ is a reasonable hypothesis for the use of single plugs in helicopters and dual plugs in airplanes. But what about the cords? **Gomer Pylot** opines that helicopter pilots spend a lot of time ‘with your head out the window’. When I was flying helicopters I didn’t stick my head out the door a lot, but I did do it. In fixed-wing I’m always looking around, but the space is more confined. It sounds reasonable. But from experience, I know that straight cords can get in the way. They have to go somewhere. I agree with **Gomer Pylot** that you don’t want your cord to get tangled in your collective, and a coiled cord is a good way to avoid that. I’m sure someone thought of it, and it may be ‘the’ reason for coiled cords. But again, I have a slightly different hypothesis. Headphone jacks in airplanes tend to be on the panel (usually on the lower left side for the pilot) or perhaps near the panel on the cockpit wall. In an airplane with a yoke, which is typical, a coiled cord would drape over the yoke or pull up on the left side of it. A straight cord hangs out of the way. The helicopters I’ve flown (Robinson R22, Schweizer 300) have the headphone jacks high on the rear bulkhead. Both the pilot’s and passenger’s straight cords would hang down over/into/around the collective. A coiled cord keeps the cord out of the way of the controls. So one plug versus two plugs might be a legacy from the military format versus the civilian format, especially considering that civilian pilots used to generally not use headsets, and the coiled cord versus the straight cord might be due to the placement of the jacks and concern over unwanted interaction with the controls. These are complete guesses on my part, and I stand to be corrected. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/422 "2014-08-26T20:43:22Z")
In our C-310, we changed it to overhead at the same place as the O2 connection. The masks we used later on as we went higher & higher had a microphone in them so we had to unplug the mike form our DC head sets or the cheaper clones and plug in the one from the O2 masks. This worked much better than sucking on a tube at 20K + and trying to talk to ATC and each other. To bad you never got to fly IFR with a VTH-2 radio and a tiny overhead speaker. A Nav localizer only and needing to “P” real bad. Bawahahaha yeah, go old days… This was in an old 1956 C-310 that I had to fly sometimes way back in my first flying job. Glad those ‘good old days’ are over. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/423 "2014-08-28T03:22:10Z")
Thirty years ago I read _The Pilot’s Handbook Of Aeronautical Knowledge_. [It looked like this](http://smile.amazon.com/Pilots-Handbook-aeronautical-knowledge-Revised/dp/B002ZJP55O/ref=sr_1_31?ie=UTF8&qid=1409195484&sr=8-31&keywords=pilot%27s+handbook+of+aeronautical+knowledge). I still have it around here someplace, packed away in one of my many boxes of books. Today a new one arrived. [Here’s the Amazon page](http://smile.amazon.com/Pilots-Handbook-Aeronautical-Knowledge-FAA-H-8083-25A/dp/1619540207/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=undefined&sr=8-1&keywords=pilot%27s+handbook+of+aeronautical+knowledge). I chose the ASA version because it contains colour illustrations. Other versions are black-and-white copies. I read my original copy before I got my license, and never looked at it again. Starting in on this one, I regret that I hadn’t re-read it every couple of years. There’s loads of great information there, written so as to be accessible to the new pilot. I’d recommend to anyone who is interested in flying, but hasn’t taken the plunge yet, to pick up a copy. (Did I really say ‘plunge’? Perhaps not the best choice of words.) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/424 "2014-08-29T01:42:06Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I’d recommend to anyone who is interested in flying, but hasn’t taken the plunge yet, to pick up a copy. Incidentally, _The Pilot’s Handbook Of Aeronautical Knowledge_ is [downloadable from the FAA wensite](https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/pilot_handbook/) either as a singe document (109.22 MB), or by chapters. The link in this post is not to a .pdf file, but to the webpage where you can open them. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/425 "2014-08-29T16:09:43Z")
This is kind of tempting. [1963 Cessna 150; in annual, but disassembled](http://www.ebay.com/itm/1963-CESSNA-150-STRAIGHT-TAIL-3853-TT-A-E-IN-ANNUAL-BUT-DISASSEMBLED-CHEAP-/131279862174). It needs a doubler on the lower-right corner of the firewall, and the nose bowl can use a little massaging, but it looks sound. I like the (possibly) original paint, though it definitely needs to be re-done. It looks like it has nearly 3,900 hours on the 1,500-hour TBO engine, but the compressions are great. I think this would make a fine restoration-to-original project. At under $10,000, it’s pretty reasonable too. It could probably be bought and restored for less than the cost of buying a flying example of the last of the ‘razorback’ 150s. Unfortunately, I’m not quite ‘there’ yet to afford an airplane. And if I bought it, I’d be murdered in my sleep. Anyway, I ‘need’ something a little bigger. ---
**Author:** ![ducati](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@ducati](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ducati)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/426 "2014-09-02T03:57:42Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Why, I oughta… :mad: > > . 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ducati](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@ducati](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ducati)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/427 "2014-09-08T01:00:39Z")
Unresponsive Crashed Plane Was The World’s First Delivered TBM 900. I’m sure you’ve all seen the news by now, [but here is some more…](http://flightclub.jalopnik.com/worlds-first-delivered-tbm-900-crashes-near-jamaica-1631383525/+flyingphotog) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/428 "2014-09-08T01:16:13Z")
May not be significant if it’s the same pressurization system as the TBM700, 800, and 850, which would be what I would expect. The first production example of a new design would be something demanding investigation, though. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/429 "2014-09-08T06:02:42Z")
Never fly the “A” model of anything. Always remember you are in the tip of the arrow. Hope they can find a definitive answer. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/430 "2014-09-08T06:08:29Z")
I used to fly the first production Aerostar 601. 🆒 It was old so all the surprises had already happened… 😃 [http://www.aircraftdomain.com/tail-number/n601dp.html](http://www.aircraftdomain.com/tail-number/n601dp.html) ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/431 "2014-09-08T07:22:06Z")
I’ve flown the second production BAe146, likewise the surprises have mostly already happened. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/432 "2014-09-22T04:15:27Z")
BFR, baby! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ducati](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@ducati](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ducati)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/433 "2014-09-22T21:14:30Z")
Didja study? ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/434 "2014-09-22T21:27:37Z")
4 minutes of fun airshow video. Good nuff I felt I had to post about it. Fun stuff. Safe for work but start volume low if that is a concern. [http://biggeekdad.com/2014/08/cameron-airshow/](http://biggeekdad.com/2014/08/cameron-airshow/) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/435 "2014-09-22T22:42:47Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > Didja study? I went to the AOPA Rusty Pilots seminar in a month ago. He seemed to be impressed by how well I was flying, especially considering I hadn’t been in an airplane since 2011 and hadn’t flown PIC (and that in a helicopter) in over a decade. I found myself saying ‘Thank you,’ a lot. 🙂 . ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/436 "2014-09-23T02:18:24Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > 4 minutes of fun airshow video. Good nuff I felt I had to post about it. Fun stuff. > > Safe for work but start volume low if that is a concern. > > [http://biggeekdad.com/2014/08/cameron-airshow/](http://biggeekdad.com/2014/08/cameron-airshow/) The guy in the B-18 owes me a pair of underwear. I was in a porta-john at the end of the runway at an air show when he took off and he skimmed it the whole length. One of the few places where “aw crap” is truly appropriate. I was moving fast to exit stage left. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/437 "2014-10-05T20:33:37Z")
It’s been a helluva run of good weather. (Except for one flyable weekend which I was racing,) I’ve been around a balloon every weekend since Mother’s Day. Too windy today, though. ☹ It was even too windy in ABQ for Mass Ascension, so I couldn’t even stream a flight to get a fix in. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/438 "2014-10-05T21:22:45Z")
You all know I like to ‘window shop’ airplanes. I often see aircraft ‘projects’ and wonder about the cost of repair/restoration. (I learned _my_ lesson with a car. No way I’d take on a ‘project’ airplane!) Then there are the airplanes that have already been repaired. I found [this 2003 Cessna 172SP](http://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-cessna-172-sp-/201185772869?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2ed79b4545&item=201185772869&pt=Motors_Aircraft). The initial bid amount set up a red flag. Looking at the picture, I saw that the lower cowl wasn’t painted. I plugged in the N-number and NTSB and [found](http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20100714X15636): > [@](#): > > According to the student pilot, she began the initial takeoff roll from runway 1 for her first solo flight with control inputs for a left crosswind. The airplane started to turn right, so she partially released right rudder pressure. About 50 knots, “the nose swung left and wobbled.” The student pilot then “went to add right rudder” but “was afraid of flipping it.” The airplane departed the left side of the runway and traveled across a grass median, an embankment, and a taxiway, sustaining substantial damage to the fuselage. The student pilot stated that there were no pre-impact mechanical malfunctions or failures of the airplane. Her flight instructor reported that she had performed four “well coordinated” takeoffs and landings under similar conditions during a dual flight prior to the solo flight. A weather observation taken at the airport at the time of the accident indicated winds from 280 degrees at 6 knots. Another interesting one is [this 1897 Beechcraft F-33A](http://www.ebay.com/itm/1987-F-33A-Bonanza-offered-at-NO-RESERVE-/381015576009?forcerrptr=true&hash=item58b64c4dc9&item=381015576009&pt=Motors_Aircraft). This is at least the third time the guy has tried to sell it. The problem? It’s registered in the Experimental category. > [@](#): > > The reason this aircraft was re-certified experimental, was due to water intrusion in the belly of the aircraft due to Hurricane Sandy over two years ago. The level of the water reached 2 inches over the bottom of the baggage door. The insurance company, removed the airframe data plate, sold the aircraft through it’s normal sales. I purchased the aircraft, had it inspected by the FAA, authourization was given to request a replacement data plate from Beechcraft. This was complied with in June, 2013. The previous owner, 6 months after the sale sent aircraft registry notice of the aircraft being destroyed. Aircraft registry refused to register this aircraft due to Beechcraft refusing to supply a replacement data plate. After a 12 month appeal to the FAA, the Chief Counsel opined on this issue by stating the FAA cannot force Beechcraft to sell me a data plate, therefore the FAA has allowed me register this aircraft experimental. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/439 "2014-10-05T21:34:54Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > It’s been a helluva run of good weather. (Except for one flyable weekend which I was racing,) I’ve been around a balloon every weekend since Mother’s Day. Too windy today, though. ☹ It was even too windy in ABQ for Mass Ascension, so I couldn’t even stream a flight to get a fix in. **Spiderman,** I was all set to go over and watch the America’s Challenge launch late Saturday afternoon. Then they postponed it until after the fireworks, hoping the winds would die down. The winds didn’t die so no launch; the next opportunity is Monday. I still have a chance to see the launch up close, but I really hope they can do it in the afternoon- I hate dealing with the huge crowds they have in the mornings and evenings. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/440 "2014-10-05T22:45:54Z")
> [@Bumbershoot](#): > > **Spiderman,** I was all set to go over and watch the America’s Challenge launch late Saturday afternoon. Then they postponed it until after the fireworks, hoping the winds would die down. The winds didn’t die so no launch; the next opportunity is Monday. I still have a chance to see the launch up close, but I really hope they can do it in the afternoon- I hate dealing with the huge crowds they have in the mornings and evenings. First, I don’t like you any more, but jealousy will do that. :mad: Second, if you get the opportunity to go over, do it! I’ve crewed for 3 America;s Challenges in the past. It’s amazing everything that goes in/on/around a gas balloon basket, which is only about 3x5 & used by two people for 2-3 days. Hot & cold weather clothes, food, loo, transponder, lights, aircraft radio, satellite phone, sectionals for ½ the country, batteries, ballast. All of their checklists, equipment placement, sandbag filling (if not already done on Sat) & gas filling takes hours. I highly recommend taking dinner & going to watch. As for launch, it won’t be in the afternoon; they always do it at night so they don’t have to deal with solar cooling & the subsequent dropping of ballast so early in the flight. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=23)