# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 224
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4463 "2023-09-07T18:37:08Z")
A few days ago was the 50th anniversary of the crash of Delta 723 at Logan airport in Boston. An interesting article on the orphans of the plane crash victims: **Fifty Years Later, the Orphans of Flight 723 Return to the Scene:** A Vermont woman spent years tracking down men and women who lost their parents in the same 1973 plane crash. Would they answer her questions about loss? [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/07/health/flight-723-plane-crash-children.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/07/health/flight-723-plane-crash-children.html) Admiral Cloudberg’s discussion: > **[Mist on the Water: The crash of Delta flight 723](https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/mist-on-the-water-the-crash-of-delta-flight-723-d5966f0e4435)** > > On the 31st of July 1973, a Delta Air Lines DC-9 on approach to Boston, Massachusetts slammed into a seawall at the foot of the runway… Interesting that except for some construction workers doing something not too far away, no one seemed to have noticed the crash. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4464 "2023-09-07T20:06:39Z")
There have been a number of accidents that have occurred in such poor vis that the airport has no idea the accident happened. Plus of course the occasional accident that occurs on a corner of the airport hidden from the control tower by intervening obstructions. Even when they know or persuade themselves an accident has occurred, often it takes fire/rescue a rather long time to feel their way into the murk before stumbling on the scene of the crash. Here’s one I happen to know of off top of head: > **[American Airlines Flight 1420](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_1420)** > > American Airlines Flight 1420 was a flight from Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport (DFW) to Little Rock National Airport in the United States. On June 1, 1999, the McDonnell Douglas MD-82 operating as Flight 1420 overran the runway upon landing in Little Rock and crashed. 9 of the 145 people aboard were immediately killed—the captain and 8 passengers. > The aircraft involved in the incident was a McDonnell Douglas MD-82 (registration N215AA), a derivative of the McDonnell Douglas DC-9, and... @Elendil_s_Heir: That Luftwaffe mishap reminds me of this one > **[1982 Thunderbirds Indian Springs Diamond Crash](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Thunderbirds_Indian_Springs_Diamond_Crash)** > > The 1982 Diamond Crash was the worst operational accident to befall the U.S. Air Force Thunderbirds Air Demonstration Team involving show aircraft. Four Northrop T-38 Talon jets crashed during operational training on 18 January 1982, killing all four pilots. > The Thunderbirds were practicing at Indian Springs Air Force Auxiliary Field, Nevada (now Creech Air Force Base) for a performance at Davis–Monthan AFB, Arizona. Four T-38As, Numbers 1–4, comprising the basic diamond formation, hit the des... Everybody stayed in formation and died as a group after Lead made a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4465 "2023-09-07T22:19:05Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Even when they know or persuade themselves an accident has occurred, often it takes fire/rescue a rather long time to feel their way into the murk before stumbling on the scene of the crash. Perhaps most famously in the Tenerife disaster - emergency services were tending to the stricken PanAm jet for some minutes before anyone realised the KLM jumbo was on fire further down the runway. ATC couldn’t see much through the fog. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4466 "2023-09-07T22:59:37Z")
Yes. Who at that small airport would expect two burning jets? I did not read the wiki in detail on AA1420 before I posted it. I see now the article doesn’t mention it, but the rainfall rate was so severe the firetrucks could not find the accident; visibility was negligible. The rain eased up somewhat a few minutes later and then they located the wreckage. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4467 "2023-09-08T20:20:14Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Or better yet, a new > > [SOCATA TBM - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOCATA_TBM) Very nice airplane, indeed. But it reminded me of something you said once basically along the lines of, if you put a turboprop into an airplane, it becomes a completely different plane compared to a similar piston-engine plane. And you ain’t just whistlin’ dixie, brother! I looked up the approximate cost of a TBM 900. On the used market, a _ **pre-owned** _ TBM 900 averages around $3.25 million; some are going for as much as $4.8 million. _ **Used** _. It’s kinda funny in a way because at a casual glance, they look like low-wing single-engine private planes in the same class as a humble Piper Cherokee, although one soon sees that it’s significantly larger and has a distinctly longer nose. So what do you get for all those millions? You get turboprop power, fast cruise, high service ceiling, and impressive range for a small plane – more than 2,000 miles. The pressurized cabin is small but comfortable enough for up to four people. This is really in competition with small private jets. Sorry, I’m just talking to myself here. It’s a really impressive little plane, but hot damn – the cost! If someone wants to talk about an actual large private jet like the Gulfstream G650, you gotta dig a little deeper into your lunch money – $65 million new (but used ones can be had for as little as the bargain-basement price of $40 million). Christ on a pogo stick, I would have thought new airliners could be bought for that, as indeed they once could be, and not that long ago, either! ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4468 "2023-09-08T22:49:45Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Very nice airplane, indeed. But it reminded me of something you said once basically along the lines of, if you put a turboprop into an airplane, it becomes a completely different plane compared to a similar piston-engine plane. How many examples are there of planes that had both piston and turboprop options? The only one I can think of is the de Havilland Beaver. I saw a Turbo Beaver once, getting some modifications and an up-rated version of the PT6 engine. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4469 "2023-09-08T23:24:25Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > How many examples are there of planes that had both piston and turboprop options? Very few indeed, but I don’t think that was really the point. The Piper PA-46 Malibu was piston-engined, and then retrofitted with a turboprop and renamed the Meridian and later M500. The TBM series itself was derived from the Mooney 301 that was powered by a Lycoming 6-cylinder piston engine. In any case, I don’t think the observation was meant to be taken literally, as in, remove this piston engine and drop in a turboprop. I think it rather means that aircraft equipped with turboprops are going to be designed for high speeds, high altitudes, pressurized cabins, and obviously retractable landing gears, and all the appropriate controls and avionics, putting them in a completely different class from your run-of-the-mill small single-engine piston-powered planes even if at a casual glance they somewhat look the same. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4470 "2023-09-08T23:27:13Z")
From a different thread: the Cessna 210 Centurion (coming in many piston variants), but also a conversion called the “Silver Eagle” with a Rolls-Royce Model 250 turboprop. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4471 "2023-09-08T23:42:12Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > In any case, I don’t think the observation was meant to be taken literally, as in, remove this piston engine and drop in a turboprop. Oh, I know but it got me thinking of how many cases there might be where you could compare piston and turboprop in the same airframe. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > From a different thread: the Cessna 210 Centurion (coming in many piston variants), but also a conversion called the “Silver Eagle” with a Rolls-Royce Model 250 turboprop. There have probably been plenty of aftermarket mods, and experimental conversions of piston to turboprop, but how many full factory-supported examples have there been? The Beaver was even a _radial_ piston to turboprop. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4472 "2023-09-08T23:47:10Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > There have probably been plenty of aftermarket mods, and experimental conversions of piston to turboprop, Over 100 Silver Eagles have been produced, so it wasn’t some one-off experimental job. But yeah, it wasn’t a factory option either. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2023, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4473 "2023-09-09T02:45:52Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > There have probably been plenty of aftermarket mods, and experimental conversions of piston to turboprop, but how many full factory-supported examples have there been? One that comes to mind is the: > **[Piper PA-31 Navajo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA-31_Navajo)** > > The Piper PA-31 Navajo is a family of twin-engined utility aircraft designed and built by Piper Aircraft for small cargo and feeder airlines, and as a corporate aircraft. Production ran from 1967 to 1984. It was license-built in a number of Latin American countries. > In 1962, Piper began developing a six- to eight-seat twin-engined corporate and commuter transport aircraft under the project name Inca, at the request of company founder William T. Piper. Looking like a scaled-up PA-30 Twin Coman... It started life as a piston twin. I flew those in Grand Canyon air tours. Then they made a pressurized variant. Then they made a turboprop variant of the pressurized variant: > **[Piper PA-31T Cheyenne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA-31T_Cheyenne)** > > The Piper PA-31T Cheyenne is a twin-engine turboprop development of the earlier PA-31P Pressurized Navajo. > Originally, the aircraft was an upgraded version of the Pressurized Navajo equipped with two Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-28 turboprop engines. Later, the aircraft was further refined and developed, including aerodynamic improvements and fuselage extensions. The PA-31T led to the development of the PA-42 Cheyenne III and IV. > Data from Jane's All the World's Aircraft 1976–77 General charact... Then they went even farther and it became the: > **[Piper PA-42 Cheyenne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA-42_Cheyenne)** > > The Piper PA-42 Cheyenne is a twin engine turboprop aircraft built by Piper Aircraft. The PA-42 Cheyenne is a larger development of the earlier PA-31T Cheyennes I and II (which are, in turn, turboprop developments of the PA-31 Navajo). > The PA-42 Cheyenne III was announced in September 1977. The first production Cheyenne III flew for the first time on May 18, 1979, and FAA certification was granted in early 1980. Compared with the Cheyenne II, the PA-42-720 was about 1 m (3 ft) longer, was pow... A friend of my Dad had one; that was a sweet ride. As long as somebody richer than college-aged me was buying the gas. In a much earlier era there was also the > **[Aero Commander 500 family](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aero_Commander_500_family)** > > The Aero Commander 500 family is a series of light-twin piston-engined and turboprop aircraft originally built by the Aero Design and Engineering Company in the late 1940s, renamed the Aero Commander company in 1950, and later a division of Rockwell International in 1965. Final production occurred under the Gulfstream Aerospace name. The initial production version was the 200 mph (320 km/h; 170 kn), seven-seat Aero Commander 520. An improved version, the 500S, manufactured after 1967, is known... series. As the article outlines, it started as a piston & ended as a turboprop. A near contemporary to the Aero Commander was Beech’s original big twin, the piston > **[Beechcraft Queen Air](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beechcraft_Queen_Air)** > > The Beechcraft Queen Air is a twin-engined light aircraft produced by Beechcraft in numerous versions from 1960 to 1978. Based upon the Twin Bonanza, with which it shared key components such as wings, engines, and tail surfaces, it had a larger fuselage, and served as the basis for the highly successful King Air series of turboprop aircraft. Its primary uses have been as a private aircraft, utility, and small commuter airliner. Production ran for 17 years. > With the company's popular Twin Bona... Which later was fitted with turbprops and became the > **[Beechcraft King Air](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beechcraft_King_Air)** > > The Beechcraft King Air is a line of American utility aircraft produced by Beechcraft. The King Air line comprises a number of twin-turboprop models that have been divided into two families. The Model 90 and 100 series developed in the 1960s are known as King Airs, while the later T-tail Model 200 and 300 series were originally marketed as Super King Airs, with the name "Super" being dropped by Beechcraft in 1996 (although it is still often used to differentiate the 200 and 300 series King Air... which eventually was morphed into the > **[Beechcraft Model 99](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beechcraft_Model_99)** > > The Beechcraft Model 99 is a civilian aircraft produced by Beechcraft. It is also known as the Beech 99 Airliner and the Commuter 99. The 99 is a twin-engine, unpressurized, 15 to 17 passenger seat turboprop aircraft, derived from the earlier Beechcraft King Air and Queen Air. It uses the wings of the Queen Air, the engines and nacelles of the King Air, and sub-systems from both, with a specifically designed nose structure. > Designed in the 1960s as a replacement for the Beechcraft Model 18, it f... which was in turn grown & tweaked a lot and turned into the abomination known as the > **[Beechcraft 1900](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beechcraft_1900)** > > The Beechcraft 1900 is a U.S made twin-engine turboprop regional airliner manufactured by Beechcraft. It is also used as a freight aircraft and corporate transport, and by several governmental and military organizations. With customers favoring larger regional jets, then-owner Raytheon ended production in October 2002. > Developed from the Beechcraft Super King Air, the aircraft was designed to carry passengers in all weather conditions from airports with relatively short runways. It is capable... The big thing all of these airplanes had going on, but especially the Aero Commander & the Queen Air, is that reliable powerful non-radial pistons in big horsepower simply didn’t exist. So they all started out as grossly underpowered ugly duckling disasters that suddenly turned into beautiful swans once they had 600-750shp per side to drag them through the sky. Now with enough power you could grow the passenger capacity and fuel capacity enough it made sense. The Navajo/Cheyenne benefited from being invented 10-15 year later than the others. By which time the TSIO-540 had been perfected. It still was no TPE331 or PT-6, but it put out 350HP, was reliable, and had a small & therefore low-drag frontal cross-section. In the wacky world of trying to sell USAF stuff they ought to want, but don’t, there’s this entrant which sort of straddles the line between aftermarket conversion vs factory new: > **[Piper PA-48 Enforcer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA-48_Enforcer)** > > The Piper PA-48 Enforcer is an American turboprop-powered light close air support aircraft built by Piper in the 1970s. It is a development of the World War II-era North American P-51 Mustang fighter. The Enforcer concept was originally created and flown as the Cavalier Mustang by David Lindsay, owner of Cavalier Aircraft, in response to the United States Air Force PAVE COIN program, but Cavalier did not have the manufacturing abilities to mass-produce the Enforcer, so the program was sold to ... It started life as the North American P-51 Mustang. Really. They were going to build brand new P-51 variants on mostly original WWII tooling except for the parts that were all new. I was in the right time and place and job that if USAF had bought any for real I’d have been flying them. Gawd I wish. But it was not to be. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2023, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4474 "2023-09-09T02:57:54Z")
The Beechcraft Model 45, T-34 Mentor, was originally piston-powered; then the C-model got a P&W PT-6. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2023, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4475 "2023-09-09T04:46:37Z")
There was a proposal to build new Grumman Geese with turboprop engines, but it fell through. Another company has acquired the type certificate for the Grumman Albatross with plans to produce a new turboprop version in 2024. Both according to Wikipedia. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2023, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4476 "2023-09-09T10:56:16Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Just came across a reference to this 1939 Luftwaffe disaster. I’m mystified by that accident report. Were they flying without altimeters? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2023, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4477 "2023-09-09T11:19:20Z")
Lancair Evolution can be built with either a piston engine or turbo-prop. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2023, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4478 "2023-09-09T16:26:36Z")
> **[H2FLY completes world's first piloted flight of a liquid hydrogen powered...](https://electrek.co/2023/09/07/h2fly-completes-worlds-first-piloted-flight-liquid-hydrogen-electric-aircraft-video/)** > > Zero emission aircraft powertrain developer H2FLY is celebrating a major milestone in what it is hailing as a world’s first.... ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2023, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4479 "2023-09-09T16:30:49Z")
If the company is based in Germany, I wonder why the aircraft is registered in Slovenia. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2023, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4480 "2023-09-09T17:55:32Z")
> The world’s first liquid hydrogen-powered four-seater, **a product involving the Slovenian aircraft maker Pipistrel** , made its maiden flight at Maribor airport on 7 September in what is considered a major milestone in zero-emission aviation. > > The H2FLY HY4 aircraft has been developed by the German company H2FLY **in cooperation with Ajdovščina-based Pipistrel** and the French industrial gas supplier Air Liquide. [https://sloveniatimes.com/39783/first-hydrogen-powered-four-seater-makes-maiden-flight-in-maribor](https://sloveniatimes.com/39783/first-hydrogen-powered-four-seater-makes-maiden-flight-in-maribor) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2023, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4481 "2023-09-09T20:35:40Z")
I don’t understand how it works. Its using liquid hydrogen in what sounds like a fuel cell for an electric motor. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2023, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4482 "2023-09-09T21:20:51Z")
Exactly. The fuel cell converts hydrogen directly into electricity and the electricity turns the motor that turns the prop. There might be a small buffering battery in there to improve throttle response or takeoff performance, but the only true source of energy is the fuel cell consuming the hydrogen. No part of that is revolutionary. But like with battery tech, the problem is getting size, weight, heat rejection, and operating efficiency all high enough to be compatible with a flying machine. These folks are evidently getting close to cracking that nut. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=223) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=225)