# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 228
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4543 "2023-09-18T00:34:00Z")
I never made the Reno races. I did attend most of the California / Mojave air races in the 1970s. At which I witnessed one crash/death when a pilot’s Bearcat caught fire, he climbed out of the pack, then apexed at a couple thousand feet, rolled over, and impacted going nearly straight down at high speed still trailing fire. Somewhere on the equivalent of the back stretch well out in the desert and far from the crowd. Presumably he was overcome by heat and smoke during his zoom climb. A hard way to die. IIRC the rest of the race day went off normally after the crash I witnessed. It was the unlimited event, so there may not have been much left after that. As to Reno today … Damn shame to lose two pilots and airplanes to a midair. A further shame to lose the planned events after that which did not run on that day and never will. Hard way to ring down the curtain on a great US aviation tradition. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4544 "2023-09-18T00:59:54Z")
We have an ejection (pilot safe) with the F-35 continuing to parts unknown. > **[Search on for a missing Marine Corps fighter jet in South Carolina after...](https://apnews.com/article/south-carolina-fighter-pilot-ejects-plane-search-bcd3f6ae94a15c8258818a3f2f28bfac)** > > A Marine Corps pilot safely ejected from a fighter jet over South Carolina and the search for his missing aircraft was focused on two lakes near North Charleston. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4545 "2023-09-18T01:23:54Z")
Wreckage lost forever in Dum Dum **DUMMM** … The Redneck Triangle. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4546 "2023-09-18T01:40:53Z")
[Dum Dum **DUMMM**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb-4gtU4OA8) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4547 "2023-09-18T01:45:55Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > I figure I’ve been to near 40 of the 60-odd years of Reno Air Race, and never was present for a crash till the last two years in a row. Well, no more. It’s over. Hate to have it go down like that. They collided while landing? Another Oshkosh formation landing accident? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4548 "2023-09-18T02:04:56Z")
No info yet. Might’ve just been two airplanes independently maneuvering towards the same runway that thought they saw everybody else when they really saw _almost_ everybody else. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4549 "2023-09-18T02:20:54Z")
May they rest in peace, having died doing what they loved. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4550 "2023-09-18T03:07:31Z")
I was actually watching most of the planes land, because they do it right in front of where I set up camp. I didn’t hear or see a thing. I heard some sirens, way off in the distance but didn’t make a connection, because there was no smoke or nothing (I get no radio or narration from the Home Pylon). I didn’t know what happened till I got home. The whole place just shut down about 2:30, and after sitting the sun for over a half hour, figured something was up, and bailed out. They must have collided pretty far off the pattern. Strange. The whole place went eerily quiet. I was loading up camp and finally decided to quit the event when I saw the rescue vehicles returning from the remote pylons at a lackadaisical pace. I loaded the dogs and hit it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4551 "2023-09-18T14:27:08Z")
[Seaplane crash on Lake Sammamish](https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/best-friend-man-killed-lake-samammish-seaplane-crash/281-46147440-37a6-4102-9ec8-c9917372f05d). The pilot suffered fatal injuries, and the passenger is in critical condition. The pilot was not identified, and his face was blurred in the video; but according to his shirt, the aircraft was a [Seawind 3000](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seawind_International_Seawind) with a certification date of 2012. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4552 "2023-09-18T14:44:16Z")
[Another article](https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/float-plane-crashes-lake-sammamish/NIBSPV2AHVD4JP3BF5CTBR3B3E/) has a witness account: > “The plane was taking off and then it made a sputter, the engine wasn’t getting up to speed and then it kind of hit a nosedive so then it went up, came down, nosedived, and flipped over,” said Janelle Shuey. Sounds like an engine failure on take-off, followed by a stall. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4553 "2023-09-18T15:43:32Z")
That’s sure the way to bet. Lightplanes are required to have a pretty strong nose-down break when they stall. At very low altitudes, that’d tend to stuff the nose into the water almost instantly and it’s game over as you flip violently upside down. On flat land the same impact geometry might’ve bounced into the air; on water it digs in violently. I’d also expect that a plane of that configuration would have major pitch changes with power changes. If the engine was alternating between takeoff power and next to no power (“sputtering” as the witness put it) that could trigger some pretty violent pitch excursions which are also a set-up for a PIO to make things even worse. Then you dig the nose into the water and once again it’s game over as you flip violently upside down. Unrelated to this mishap … I’d meant to post this story a few days ago but I’m now reminded to. A few days ago I was at the beach shortly after sunrise. Lovely morning with little wind and a near calm sea. Planes and helos flying just barely offshore at 500 or 1000ish feet ASL are commonplace any time of day or evening, but always worth a look as soon as you (well I) hear them. Anyhow I hear an unusual engine sound from an unusual angle and look out to see an amphibian flying along parallel to the shore. He’s 500+ feet out, but his altitude is well less than one wingspan. About half a wingspan actually. Looks fun. But also made me think that a 30 degree bank with no climb will dig a wingtip & he’s dead. Or some inattention to pitch and if he touches the hull to the water at cruise speed he might well nose over. After he passed my position I watched him bank away from shore, probably to accommodate how the shoreline curves ahead. I was pleased to see him using very, very little bank, showing good awareness of how far into a corner he was operating. He eventually droned out of sight and earshot and did not return. But both these scenarios are a reminder that unscheduled contact with the water is not much safer than unscheduled contact with the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4554 "2023-09-18T15:53:22Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > always worth a look as soon as you (well I) hear them. Yes. I was at a family gathering in Orange, CA when an aircraft operating out of SNA flew over. A cousin saw me and some other cousins chatting. She said, ‘You can always tell who the pilots are in this family. Whenever an airplane flies over, you all look up.’ ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4555 "2023-09-18T16:07:46Z")
Sounds like the opening scene of a James Bond movie. Good thing the planes are so inexpensive! > **[Have you seen a missing fighter jet? U.S. asks for help after ‘mishap’](https://www.aol.com/news/seen-missing-fighter-jet-u-084637536.html)** > > The jet was left in autopilot mode so there’s a possibility it could still be airborne somewhere over South Carolina, a spokesman at Joint Base Charleston told NBC News. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4556 "2023-09-18T16:15:20Z")
Dedicated and rather irreverent thread ref the incredible disappearing F-35: > [@Psst...hey, buddy....maybe you've seen an F-35 fighter jet someplace 'round here?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psst-hey-buddy-maybe-youve-seen-an-f-35-fighter-jet-someplace-round-here/990295): > > Just wonderin’, ya know… Because the army lost one someplace in South Carolina, and can’t find it. . ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4557 "2023-09-18T21:19:54Z")
There are two threads; the second is: > [@Lost Military Plane](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lost-military-plane/990323): > > What can you do when the Air Force loses a stealth fighter? The US military has asked for the public’s help to locate one of its $80m (£65m) F-35 fighter jets after the pilot ejected from the aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4558 "2023-09-18T21:25:18Z")
Only because of the title, I’m reminded of this classic: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One\_of\_Our\_Aircraft\_Is\_Missing/](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_of_Our_Aircraft_Is_Missing/) ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4559 "2023-09-18T22:56:18Z")
I’m reminded of McWatt in Catch-22; no doubt you wisely didn’t jump up as it went by (I realise you weren’t directly under its flightpath; artistic licence on my part). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4560 "2023-09-19T00:11:19Z")
I don’t see how its possible to lose a jet like that. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4561 "2023-09-19T00:28:12Z")
Not tracked on radar, dives into dense forest & the trees close up. Until somebody gets very close to it in the air at low altitude or happens to walk on it, it’ll sit there. It took 20 days to find the jet after this happened: > **[Craig D. Button](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_D._Button)** > > Craig David Button (24 November 1964 – 2 April 1997) was a United States Air Force captain who died when he crashed a Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II aircraft under mysterious circumstances on 2 April 1997. During the incident, Captain Button inexplicably flew hundreds of miles off-course without radio contact, appeared to maneuver purposefully and did not attempt to eject before the crash. His death is regarded as a suicide because no other hypothesis explains the events. The incident Craig But... ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4562 "2023-09-19T00:36:32Z")
Toronto Maple Leaf player Bill Barilko’s sea plane went down on a fishing trip, and it took 11 years to find him. If that F-35 went down in one of the lakes around there, and didn’t generate a slick or release floating wreckage, it could be fairly hard to find. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=227) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=229)