# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 229
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4563 "2023-09-19T00:45:31Z")
And now it’s been found. 30-60 miles from where the pilot landed. A typical eastern US rural county of rolling hills & hollows, creeks, farms, and forests. And a couple of small towns. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4564 "2023-09-19T01:49:21Z")
Shouldn’t that be hollers and cricks? ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4565 "2023-09-19T01:54:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I don’t see how its possible to lose a jet like that. There was also the Learjet that crashed in New Hampshire - it took three years to locate. Not the Sahara Desert, not the Indian Ocean… they couldn’t find a jet in _New Hampshire_. > **[1996 New Hampshire Learjet crash](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_New_Hampshire_Learjet_crash)** > > On Christmas Eve 1996, a Learjet 35A business jet disappeared near Dorchester, New Hampshire, United States. The crash led to the longest missing aircraft search in the state's history, lasting almost three years. Media attention eventually resulted in congressional legislation mandating improved emergency locator transmitters (ELTs) be installed in U.S.-registered business jets. > The aircraft involved, registration N388LS, was operated by the Aircraft Charter Group and flown by pilots Johan S... ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4566 "2023-09-19T03:06:48Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > And now it’s been found. > > 30-60 miles from where the pilot landed. A typical eastern US rural county of rolling hills & hollows, creeks, farms, and forests. And a couple of small towns. Did the pilot take the Emergency locator transmitter with him? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4567 "2023-09-19T03:25:59Z")
Aircrews carry an AN/PRC-90 (or whatever replaced it) in their survival vests. In civilian aircraft, the ELT is usually attached to the airframe. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4568 "2023-09-19T03:33:39Z")
My sarcastic question aside, why did it take so long to locate the plane? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4569 "2023-09-19T03:35:05Z")
I suspect two reasons: 1) It flew farther than expected; and 2) Crashes are sometimes hard to find (see the CAP Powerpoint pictures). ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4570 "2023-09-19T13:33:01Z")
Until we see some aerial photos of the wreckage site we won’t know why it took awhile. If nobody observed the impact and there wasn’t much post-crash fire, it’ll sit there patiently until a human gets to wherever it is. Whether overhead in a search aircraft or on foot. The Earth, or even New Hampshire, is a very big place when you have to walk the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4571 "2023-09-19T18:26:45Z")
They’ve never found this important guy’s plane in Alaska: [Hale Boggs - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hale_Boggs) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4572 "2023-09-19T23:53:27Z")
Maybe if he was a Senator one of the 12 people living between Anchorage and Juneau would have looked for him. That and I don’t thing the plane had a transponder but I could be wrong. It’s a lot easier to track on radar that way. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4573 "2023-09-20T00:51:11Z")
As if there was radar between Anchorage and Juneau. I’d not be surprised to find there’s not, at least not below the flight levels. Here in 2023 there’s an awful lot of the US Southwest with no effective radar coverage until you’re in the mid teens. 50 years ago in Alaska? Fuggedabudit. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4574 "2023-09-20T01:54:38Z")
I would expect the Alaskan coast to be well covered because of the Cold War. As for the Southwest, you follow the roads. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4575 "2023-09-20T13:13:15Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I would expect the Alaskan coast to be well covered because of the Cold War. I don’t follow. Why would anybody, much less the Russians be interested in penetrating US/Canadian airspace in the area between Anchorage and Juneau? There is **nothing** there. Continued nothing for quite a ways, too. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4576 "2023-09-20T13:25:49Z")
[The DEW Line: Cold War Defense at the Top of the World](https://www.nga.mil/history/The_DEW_Line-Cold_War_Defense_at_the_Top_of_the_Wo.html) There’s a map at the top of the page. I’m guessing that _Magiver_ is suggesting good radar coverage in Alaska because of the DEW line. There used to be a radar station here in Birch Bay ([Blaine Air Force Station](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaine_Air_Force_Station)), but it was shut down in 1979. The DEW line was decommissioned in 1989. It’s been replaced by the [North Warning System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Warning_System), but that came after the Cold War (well, 1988 – close enough). ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4577 "2023-09-20T15:13:23Z")
All of that defense radar stuff was about detecting incoming Russians from hundreds of miles away over the ocean. Not about detecting airplanes scud-running along the shoreline or hugging the terrain inland. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4578 "2023-09-20T16:52:40Z")
Citing myself from one of the other dedicated USMC F-35 crash threads: > [@Psst...hey, buddy....maybe you've seen an F-35 fighter jet someplace 'round here?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psst-hey-buddy-maybe-youve-seen-an-f-35-fighter-jet-someplace-round-here/990295/68): > > Interesting. So far no real evidence for that, just the open question of “why jump out of an evidently flyable jet?” Off top of head I can think of a couple of other potential reasons. Spatial disorientation such that the pilot’s gyros got so confused they couldn’t control the airplane even though it was on a reasonably even keel. Jumping out at low altitude under those circumstances would be be the book answer. There have been reports of major bad weather in the area at the time. Ligh… ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4579 "2023-09-20T23:17:59Z")
Think about it. In a war scenario the object is to penetrate your enemy’s air space at it’s weakest point. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4580 "2023-09-20T23:28:03Z")
Yes, but from _where_? Kamchatka? AFAIK, the USSR never had any true aircraft carriers, and they couldn’t handle any aircraft with the range to penetrate US airspace “at it’s weakest” and then fly the 1000+ miles it would take to get anywhere _near_ anything worth bombing. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4581 "2023-09-21T01:36:47Z")
Russia is 55 miles from Alaska in the Bering Strait and they have long rang bombers which they seem to enjoy [flying around Alaska](https://www.airandspaceforces.com/russian-warplanes-near-alaska-nato-airspace/). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4582 "2023-09-21T17:49:07Z")
[Wingsuit skydiver was decapitated by plane’s wing 20 seconds into jump: trial](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/wingsuit-skydiver-was-decapitated-by-plane-s-wing-20-seconds-into-jump-trial/ar-AA1h3zBA?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=d8300b79fa204745958e83a14e68ce44&ei=22) > Nicolas Galy, 40, was the first of two skydivers who were released from the single-engine Pilatus plane at 14,000 feet over the town of Bouloc-en-Quercy in July 2018, reported The Times. > > Moments later, the aircraft’s pilot, identified only as 64-year-old Alain C, rapidly descended and caught up with the skydivers as they were gliding in their wingsuits. > > The plane’s left wing and a strut clipped Galy, beheading him, the court in the city of Montauban heard this week. Emphasis mine: > Alain defended himself in court, insisting that he had done nothing wrong and that **Galy “did not follow the expected course** and should never have been on that course.” I’m pretty sure that a skydiver has right-of-way over aircraft, regardless of the ‘expected course’. It was Alain C.'s responsibility to _not_ collide with the skydiver. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=228) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=230)