# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/441 "2014-10-05T23:15:59Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > First, I don’t like you any more, but jealousy will do that. :mad: 😃 > [@Spiderman](#): > > Second, if you get the opportunity to go over, do it! I’ve crewed for 3 America;s Challenges in the past. It’s amazing everything that goes in/on/around a gas balloon basket, which is only about 3x5 & used by two people for 2-3 days. Hot & cold weather clothes, food, loo, transponder, lights, aircraft radio, satellite phone, sectionals for ½ the country, batteries, ballast. All of their checklists, equipment placement, sandbag filling (if not already done on Sat) & gas filling takes hours. I highly recommend taking dinner & going to watch. > As for launch, it won’t be in the afternoon; they always do it at night so they don’t have to deal with solar cooling & the subsequent dropping of ballast so early in the flight. Well, I guess I can put up with the crowds one day a year! The worst part is the traffic in and out, but I can take the shuttle and not deal with that. And for dinner I’ll be eating a burrito smothered in green chile from one of the food vendors! I never paid a lot of attention to the gas balloon launch until last year when you brought it up and piqued my interest. But I did watch last year and I’m sure it was either just before sunset or immediately after, while it was still light out. That’s why I was hopeful they would do it in the afternoon this year. I just hope if I go over tomorrow they don’t postpone it again and make me keep going back (and paying admission) each day! ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/442 "2014-10-07T11:34:19Z")
[And they’re off](http://www.balloonfiesta.com/GasTracking/2014/)… Very late last night, actually about 2am local time. Did you make it over at all, **Bumbershoot**? ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/443 "2014-10-07T12:18:27Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > [And they’re off](http://www.balloonfiesta.com/GasTracking/2014/)… > > Very late last night, actually about 2am local time. Did you make it over at all, **Bumbershoot**? Yeah, I was there for a while last night. Didn’t stay for the launch, though. I have to get up early for work. They had started inflating one balloon when I got there; it was maybe half full. But the surface winds were still fairly strong and the ground crew was having a helluva time holding on. They ended up deflating it. I hung around for a while but since it takes 2 hours or so to get them all inflated and ready to go, I just couldn’t wait all night. It was still cool, though- and I actually woke up in the middle of the night & turned on my computer about 20 minutes before they started launching! So I got to watch online. When I get a chance I’ll post a couple of photos I took. I’ll try again next year! ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/444 "2014-10-07T12:33:10Z")
Conditions are good for a Mass Ascension today. Live coverage on all the local channels (if you can put up with our local news anchors): [KOB ch. 4](http://www.kob.com/live/) [KOAT ch. 7](http://www.koat.com/live/25815454) [KRQE ch. 13](http://krqe.com/live-streaming-balloon-fiesta/) [Alternate 24 hour live webcam](http://krqe.com/balloon-fiesta-special-live-streaming-video/) Edit: Coverage from the Fiesta begins in about 25 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/445 "2014-10-08T23:26:36Z")
[Here](http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa7/Bumbershoot-pics/Gas%20balloons/Gasballoon1_zps41ca8696.jpg) and [here](http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa7/Bumbershoot-pics/Gas%20balloons/Gasballoon2_zpsa48699c9.jpg) are photos I took before they deflated the balloon. It was a few hours before they tried again, and the launch was well after midnight. Too late for me to stay up on a weeknight! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/446 "2014-10-28T18:40:22Z")
Upon completing my BFR, [AOPA sent me this patch](http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m305/llaaksonen/AOPAPatch.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/447 "2014-11-01T23:02:03Z")
[This is why I think airplane manufacturers are killing General Aviation](http://s107.photobucket.com/user/llaaksonen/media/Cessna172Prices.png.html?sort=3&o=0). ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2014, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/448 "2014-11-02T05:10:45Z")
I think it is more: Juries giving stupid large awards on 60 year old aircraft liability claims saying that they are still liable. Stupid juries Congressmen Pretty much all lawyers Judges lawyers pretty much Lawyers, always lawyers 😃 FAA practices, actual actions, not what they say. Sport, Ultra-lite, etc still helps folks stay in the air but the C-210, Comanche 260, Bonanza, Mooney Exec., the useful, IFR, 4 place transportation, nah, that is a thing of the past. \*I wonder what other product used by an individual must be under that standard? \* ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2014, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/449 "2014-11-02T06:31:34Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > I think it is more: Rather than hijack this thread with a debate, I’ve opened a new thread [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=739414). ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/450 "2014-11-17T22:34:13Z")
Just found this thread last Thursday when **Asterion** told me about it during our last Doper Poker session. I am in the earliest of stages of inquiring about getting a Private Pilot’s License, and I have visited my local Muni Airport (only 3 miles from my house!) out in the SoCal Mojave Desert, and I met the instructor last Saturday and got the rundown on the requirements and costs…roughly about $7k which includes everything. Ground school starts in February (or maybe in March if the instructor has anticipated knee surgery at the beginning of the year). I asked what can I do in the meantime, and she steered me towards this book… “The Complete Private Pilot” by Bob Gardner ([http://www.sportys.com/PilotShop/product/9909/?utm\_medium=cpc&utm\_campaign=Brand&adpos=1o1&creative=53001792262&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CIHott\_WgsICFcaCfgoduJIASA](http://www.sportys.com/PilotShop/product/9909/?utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Brand&adpos=1o1&creative=53001792262&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CIHott_WgsICFcaCfgoduJIASA)). Any other things I should be looking at or doing before ground school? I will take an introductory flight with the instructor before and spend an hour or two discussing and answering questions. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/451 "2014-11-17T22:53:00Z")
Get a copy (book) of the FAR’s and read the parts that apply to the PVT pilot & licensing. Cheep from the gov. ---
**Author:** ![ducati](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@ducati](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ducati)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/452 "2014-11-18T01:05:52Z")
Sadly, a DeHavilland Tiger Moth crashed near Atlanta this week. > **[Loss of control Accident de Havilland DH.82A Tiger Moth N28681, 15 Nov 2014](http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=171325)** > > de Havilland DH.82A Tiger Moth MSN 86530; Taken on charge as PG621 notionally at 15 MU RAF Wroughton 16.3.44. However, placed into long term storage in ‘purgatory’ in the Oxfordshire ... Its home base was the [Peach State Aerodrome](http://www.peachstateaero.com/). The two survivors are in unknown condition, but the plane seems a loss. Perhaps they can rebuild it. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/453 "2014-11-18T01:31:46Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Get a copy (book) of the FAR’s and read the parts that apply to the PVT pilot & licensing. > > Cheep from the gov. Part 61? Or is there more? [http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=54730cf6213cdd470dadd50baeb35e4b&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14cfr61\_main\_02.tpl](http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=54730cf6213cdd470dadd50baeb35e4b&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14cfr61_main_02.tpl) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/454 "2014-11-18T04:22:47Z")
> [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > Part 61? Or is there more? Part 61 and Part 91. The FARs usually come in one book with the Airman’s Information Manual. (Actually, I think it has a gender-neutral title now.) Pick up [_The Pilot’s Handbook Of Aeronautical Knowledge_](http://smile.amazon.com/Pilots-Handbook-Aeronautical-Knowledge-FAA-H-8083-25A/dp/1619540207), or download it free from [the FAA website](http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/pilot_handbook/). (You can d/l the whole book, or individual chapters.) ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/455 "2014-11-18T05:01:40Z")
From the "[The death of General Aviation" thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=739414)… [QUOTE=Shagnasty] Good for you but the arrangement the instructor is suggesting is fairly unusual these days. Most people taking private lessons don’t take a dedicated ground school before they start flying. They just start flying, study on their own and have ground lessons as needed with their instructor on days that aren’t suitable for flying. There usually isn’t a specified start date either, especially one months out in the future. There are so few students these days that most instructors are thrilled to take a new one as soon as they show up (sometimes starting lessons that day if the student is up for it). I don’t know how you feel about a more rigid and inflexible schedule that you are being offered but it is far from normal and other nearby airports or instructors will probably have more flexibility. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=magiver] must be a regional thing. Everybody I know took a dedicated ground school. You take the exam at the end of the course and you’re done with it. Reply With Quote [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Shagnasty] I think it is more of an age thing but I could be wrong. Dedicated ground schools certainly exist in places but they are much less common than they were decades ago. There is no requirement that a prospective student pilot complete any sort of ground school before they hop in a plane and take the controls (that is why the instructor is there with the dual controls and a commanding voice that tells you when to keep your hands and feet to yourself). Many students even takeoff and land mostly unassisted during their first lesson (I did) and that is the real point. It is mostly a preference and style thing but one that is leaning towards the ‘learning by doing’ model of flying first and getting a deeper academic understanding immediately afterwards rather than treating it like an academic engineering degree. I suppose there may be some people that don’t know the difference between an air speed indicator and a speedometer but I don’t think that applies to most people that take flying lessons these days. Most have had a passion for aviation long before they build up the will and the money to take the lessons. I already knew all of the major instruments in an academic way before I ever sat in a cockpit. [/QUOTE] You know, I really didn’t ask if there was a strict order as to what came first in her course; I didn’t know that they could be done in different steps/orders, so I didn’t aim my questioning in that direction, but next time I go, I will ask. Thanks for bringing that up…it probably would be important to my own personal learning curve. [QUOTE=GusNSpot] Get a copy (book) of the FAR’s and read the parts that apply to the PVT pilot & licensing. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] Part 61 and Part 91. The FARs usually come in one book with the Airman’s Information Manual. (Actually, I think it has a gender-neutral title now.) Pick up The Pilot’s Handbook Of Aeronautical Knowledge, or download it free from the FAA website. (You can d/l the whole book, or individual chapters.) [/QUOTE] Thank you very much; I have them bookmarked now and will be printed when needed. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/456 "2014-11-18T05:09:52Z")
From Shagnasty’s linked article: [Which comes first: flying or ground school?](http://blog.aopa.org/flighttraining/?p=2206) > [@](#): > > There are some areas of study you should start with right away. Aerodynamics, the FARs, and weather are topics that you can’t get a jump on fast enough. Most people are more weather savvy today, thanks to the Weather Channel and the Internet, but aviation weather is still information intensive, so getting a leg up on it early is always a good idea. I guess I will be printing up those FARs sooner than I expected. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/457 "2014-11-18T14:46:42Z")
I took ground school at the local community college before I officially started practical training. ($50 for the course! 🙂 I miss California tuition.) But then I was logging time with CFI Dad, and had been flying with him since I was in the single-digits. The thinking at the time was that you should take ground school and practical training concurrently, but that it was no problem if you took ground school first. ---
**Author:** ![Raza](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raza/32/213_2.png) [@Raza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raza)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/458 "2014-11-18T21:29:01Z")
I haven’t flown as PIC in close to 20 years, but getting my Private Pilot license in 1987 is still one of my proudest moments and most-satisfying accomplishments. It isn’t all that difficult, but it takes commitment and willingness to work-through the frustrating parts (I’ve seen student pilot drop-out rates as high as 80%). The licenses technically last forever (but requires a current medical to be valid); the feeling of accomplishment I got (I had always wanted to fly) will last my lifetime. If you have $6-9K available for a lifetime achievement, I heartily recommend it. Even if you never make it past 100 total hours, it’s worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/459 "2014-11-18T21:39:04Z")
> [@Raza](#): > > It isn’t all that difficult, but it takes commitment and willingness to work-through the frustrating parts (I’ve seen student pilot drop-out rates as high as 80%). When I was little, I once saw my mom in tears over her training. I mean, literally crying at the restaurant we went to. Dad encouraged her, and she did get her PPL. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/460 "2014-11-18T21:47:26Z")
> [@Raza](#): > > If you have $6-9K available for a lifetime achievement, I heartily recommend it. Even if you never make it past 100 total hours, it’s worth it. There’s no downside, if that amount is disposable for you (and it may be on the low end depending on where you are, actually). If you find that yes, flying is something that’s always been missing from your life, well, it won’t be missing anymore. If you find out otherwise, well, you won’t be wondering about it anymore. Either way, you’ll be happier. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=24)