# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 237
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4723 "2023-10-24T12:31:26Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > A few times I’ve been in a plane where the pilot announced: “We have a few passengers that have a connecting flight leaving soon; please keep the aisles clear to let them pass” (some of these times, with me as the referent). Of course, nothing of the sort happened: everyone crammed the aisles as usual and started grabbing their bags from the bins. That depends very heavily on where the airplane is going or coming from. Between midwestern cities you’ll get a lot of people asking their seatmates if they need to go first. If you departed from or arrived in NYC, well, fuggedabouddit. ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4724 "2023-10-24T13:54:04Z")
I have traveled by air once in my life, and I was about seven at the time, so somewhere in the 1976-77 time range, but this is pretty scary. > **[An off-duty pilot is accused of trying to shut down the engines of a Horizon...](https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/pilots-regional-passenger-jet-3rd-pilot-cockpit-shut-104227651)** > > An off-duty pilot riding in the cockpit of a Horizon Air passenger jet tried to shut down the engines in midflight ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4725 "2023-10-24T14:29:54Z")
That’s already posted here about 7 posts above yours. With a link to the ongoing thread. Yeah, scary. But so is the cocaine-fuelled heavily-armed road-rager in the car next to yours. ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4726 "2023-10-24T14:33:44Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > But so is the cocaine-fuelled heavily-armed road-rager in the car next to yours. True, but the psychopath “driving” nearby isn’t relevant to this thread. 😉 In my area, they don’t need drugs or weapons to be deranged while on the roads. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4727 "2023-10-25T11:52:52Z")
I thought this news might be of interest. I had no idea that the post had remained unfilled for so long. He certainly sounds like he has a lot on his plate, but I expect none of the head jobs have an easy day-to-day schedule. > **[US Senate approves Biden nominee to lead FAA on 98-0 vote](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-senate-approves-biden-nominee-lead-faa-98-0-vote-2023-10-24/)** > > The U.S. Senate on Tuesday voted 98-0 to approve President Joe Biden's nominee to head the Federal Aviation Administration, Michael Whitaker, as the agency faces questions about near-miss safety incidents and air traffic control staffing issues. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4728 "2023-10-25T11:58:58Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > He certainly sounds like he has a lot on his plate, Not mushrooms, surely. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4729 "2023-10-25T13:05:59Z")
[Houston Hobby collision](https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/24/us/houston-hobby-airport-grounded-flights-jets-collision/index.html). Ooopsie. Not a lot of detail, but sounds like 1 plane took off without clearance and clipped a second plane landing. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4730 "2023-10-25T14:04:55Z")
Wow. Hobby is laid out like like an X: **[KHOU Airfield Diagram (faa.gov)](https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/2310/00198AD.PDF)**. Looking at the damage it appears they met at an intersection. A couple milliseconds different and that’d have been a total loss fireball, or a very scary very close call. Instead they bent both airplanes. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4731 "2023-10-25T15:51:28Z")
Ew ew ew. > **[EasyJet flight canceled because of ‘defecation’ incident | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/easyjet-flight-canceled-defecation-incident/index.html)** > > An easyJet flight was canceled and its passengers made to disembark after someone onboard the aircraft apparently defecated on the airplane bathroom floor. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4732 "2023-10-25T16:49:37Z")
> Expect traffic on the 101 highway in Mountain View, California, to be even worse in the days or weeks ahead, as motorists slow down to watch [Google](https://spectrum.ieee.org/tag/google) co-founder Sergey Brin’s 124-meter long airship [Pathfinder 1](https://www.ltaresearch.com/technology) launch into the air for the first time. > > _[IEEE Spectrum](https://spectrum.ieee.org/)_ has learned that [LTA Research](https://www.ltaresearch.com/), the company that Brin founded in 2015 to develop airships for humanitarian and cargo transport, received a special airworthiness certificate for the helium-filled airship in early September. > > That piece of paper allows the largest aircraft since the ill-fated Hindenburg to begin flight tests at [Moffett Field](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moffett_Federal_Airfield), a joint civil-military airport in Silicon Valley, with immediate effect. > **[EXCLUSIVE: Google Founder’s Airship Gets FAA Clearance](https://spectrum.ieee.org/lta-airship-faa-clearance)** > > Sergey Brin’s Pathfinder 1 can now take to the skies > **[The Spectacular Future of the Airship | Hello World with Ashlee Vance](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2mdsyEAO_M%2F)** > > Google's Sergey Brin wants to bring back zeppelins, the majestic airships whose golden age passed a century ago with the Hindenburg disaster. We travel from ... ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4733 "2023-10-25T22:35:51Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Ew ew ew. That was a really shitty thing for them to do. 💩💩💩 ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4734 "2023-10-26T00:03:00Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > That appears to be an A320 series. They don’t use K-loaders because they don’t use containers. The gizmo used for non-containerized cargo is a “tongue-loader”. I don’t know about JetBlue specifically, but containers are available for the A320. I think that’s one of the selling points for the type. [![](https://c8.alamy.com/comp/FRBDR0/air-new-zealand-airbus-a320-loading-cargo-brisbane-international-airport-FRBDR0.jpg) ](https://c8.alamy.com/comp/FRBDR0/air-new-zealand-airbus-a320-loading-cargo-brisbane-international-airport-FRBDR0.jpg) We get a note at the bottom of our final load sheet that states whether there is a risk of tipping back on to the tail, it just says “GROUND STABILITY PROCEDURES APPLY” and we are then supposed to pass that info to the cabin crew who will make announcements during disembarkation to try and ensure a continuous flow of passengers. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4735 "2023-10-26T01:39:29Z")
Not sure if this belongs in the Great Ongoing Space thread or the Great Ongoing Aviation thread, since it’s kinda both: > **[Boeing says it can’t make money with fixed-price contracts](https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/10/boeing-says-it-cant-make-money-with-fixed-price-contracts/)** > > "Rest assured we haven't signed any fixed-price development contracts, nor intend to." Sheesh. I can’t see why anyone would contract _anything_ with them at this point, since this is a direct admission that they can neither bid accurately nor keep their costs under control. They’ve lost \>$1.5B on their Starliner contract. They’ve lost \>$2B on their Air Force One contract. Lost \>$7B on the KC-46 Pegasus aerial refueling aircraft. I’m not sure if they’re losing money on the Wideband Global Satellite Communication satellite or O3b satellite contracts, but it wouldn’t exactly be a surprise. And instead of taking a hard internal look at why this keeps happening… they just won’t bid fixed-price contracts anymore. Bleh. Well, at least the taxpayers aren’t on the hook for the failures so far. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4736 "2023-10-26T02:19:45Z")
So Sergey Brin is building an airship that burns hydrogen. Might want to carry that fuel in drop tanks. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4737 "2023-10-27T01:41:17Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > I don’t know about JetBlue specifically, but containers are available for the A320. Wow. Thanks. Color me surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4738 "2023-10-27T13:15:17Z")
Isn’t the AF1 contract for **2** aircraft? How the hell do you spend a billion bucks on a 747? I know it is going to have crazy communication systems and maybe even some defense systems, but still… ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4739 "2023-10-27T14:05:18Z")
It is starting with diesel. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4740 "2023-10-27T14:34:17Z")
It’s Boeing, and a Defense contract, and one where I’m sure the Change Orders keep coming fast and furious. Not surprised at all. Doesn’t help that as things stand you are not allowed to even _think_ of anyone but Boeing for that job. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4741 "2023-10-27T14:36:01Z")
Still, the base plane is like $100 million and they’ve been building them for 50 years. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/4742 "2023-10-27T14:49:26Z")
The base airframe (which BTW they no longer make) is the least thing. Heck, the airframes were _already there_, repurposed from a commercial cancelled order. The project contract was $4 billion for the conversion and by now is running 3 years late and has had to deal with supply chain and inflation issues. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=236) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=238)