# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 255
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5083 "2024-01-08T18:50:27Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > > [@LSLGuy](#): > > > > When you were a kid in the back seat of the car, did Mom or Dad ever flick their cig ashes off out the window? You _know_ where any pee aimed out that window is going. > > My mom worked at Gibbs Flying Service at MYF. She went up on an aerial burial flight. The cremains went out the window… and then right back in. (Also, she or someone else lost a brand new pair of Ray Bans.) Obligatory _Big Lebowski_ clip: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmy1AsWgOXY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmy1AsWgOXY) ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5084 "2024-01-08T18:55:28Z")
Coincidentally I flew on 2 Max 9s on 1/1/24. Hopefully they get all this worked out because the oversized overhead bins are a game changer for economy class flyers. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5085 "2024-01-08T18:57:57Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > Curious what the terminal velocity of an iPhone is. > Brian european or african? ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5086 "2024-01-08T19:00:29Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You could always just pee out the door. It was at night, whose going to notice? especially in the PNW ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5087 "2024-01-08T19:09:26Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > > [@N9IWP](#): > > > > Curious what the terminal velocity of an iPhone is. > > Brian > > european or african? You have to know these things when you’re a pilot, you know. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5088 "2024-01-08T19:11:14Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > Curious what the terminal velocity of an iPhone is. > Brian Sounds like the basis for a Grant application. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5089 "2024-01-08T19:22:51Z")
> [@Tride](#): > > Coincidentally I flew on 2 Max 9s on 1/1/24. Hopefully they get all this worked out because the oversized overhead bins are a game changer for economy class flyers. big enough for a spare plug-door? … > [@smithsb](#): > > Sounds like the basis for a Grant application. . step aside - we bring in the real PROs … @Spice_Weasel ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5090 "2024-01-08T19:26:58Z")
> [@Tride](#): > > Coincidentally I flew on 2 Max 9s on 1/1/24. Hopefully they get all this worked out because the oversized overhead bins are a game changer for economy class flyers. The big bins are in most airline’s 737 fleets already. Both old NGs and new MAXs. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5091 "2024-01-08T19:35:46Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > > The first intermittent warning light appeared during taxi-in following a previous flight, which prompted the airline to remove the aircraft from extended range operations (ETOPS) per maintenance rules. The light appeared again later the same day in flight, the people said. > > I have no knowledge of the 737 pressurisation system at all but, unless there’s something like a “door open” warning that still works for the plug (doubtful), I’m struggling to see how it might be relevant. That bit you cited is a key clue. One I’d skipped over in my earlier reading and thinking and writing. Internally the mechanical systems on the MAX is a lot more computerized than the NG; it’s got a lot more in common with the later model Boeings in that. But since the cockpit is a near clone of the NG to achieve interoperability for the pilots without cross-training, the “UI” of all those computers is just a handful of 1970s idiot lights. And so highly limited. Those simple basic idiot lights, or lack thereof, is what I was talking about earlier trying to connect news of a “light” with an MEL item. During flight the MAX collects lots of different airplane health data. That data is not exposed to the pilots. That’s normal on any modern airplane. On the MAX, there is a generic idiot light labeled [MAINT] tucked in an obscure corner that illuminates shortly after landing to indicate the airplane health logging system recorded something interesting and the pilots should document that the light came on so the maintenance team can go spelunking into the computers to see whatever was interesting. And do so before the next flight. The light waits until after landing to trigger since there’s nothing useful the pilots can do with that info earlier. The info published by my former employer to the pilots does not detail what parameters are recorded why. Glancing over the mechanics’ shoulders while they poke around in there at the gate, it’s legions of data and tons of alerts, many of which are nuisance. Anyone who’s ever dumped the OBD-II data from a car knows what I’m talking about but this is turned up to eleventy-hundred. _If_ (pure speculation here) the pressurization system is smart enough to know what a reasonable pressurization outflow valve setting ought to be for the given altitude, diff pressure, and airflow into the cabin, and it’s seeing the outflow valve more closed than expected to maintain altitude, that _might_ trigger logging a flag for maintenance to review. The implication being that either something with one of the sensors is out of calibration, or something is leaking someplace. And that data logging would trigger the [MAINT] light. Leaving maintenance a vague hint something is amiss, but certainly not in great detail. It’s not that uncommon for exterior doors to be closed not quite perfectly, or for the gaskets to wear a bit and leak. The overall airplane net of the outflow valve is not exactly air tight. It oughta be close, but there are lots of legit uninteresting operational, not maintenance, reasons for one-time leaks. So signs of leakage are not a problem that would be treated as a smoking gun after 1 or even 2 occurrences. Depending of course on details we don’t have. We shall see. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5092 "2024-01-08T21:12:01Z")
Apparently United have found loose bolts during their 737 inspections. > **[United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections](https://theaircurrent.com/feed/dispatches/united-finds-loose-bolts-on-plug-doors-during-737-max-9-inspections/)** > > United Airlines has found loose bolts and other parts on 737 Max 9 plug doors as it inspects its fleet of Boeing jets following the Friday rapid depressurization aboard an Alaska Airlines jet of the same make, according to three people familiar with... ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5093 "2024-01-08T22:03:20Z")
Yikes: [![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/KoAahie.jpeg "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/KoAahie) Anyone know what drives the decision to use a castellated nut + safety wire (or pin) vs. not? We can’t see what’s on the other side of those bolts, but presumably it’s either a normal nut or a threaded hole. If the locking bolt warranted a positive locking device, why not the others? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5094 "2024-01-08T22:27:27Z")
Not seeing a yikes. The nut we see is well secured by the cotter pin. The two bolt heads we see certainly have nuts on the back. If they were going into blind holes they’d be safety wired. Cant say w 100 certainly those are undrilled bolt heads, but they sure look it. Meaning they couldn’t be safety wired. I’d sooner bet on a failure to install safety wire than a failure to install the right bts or specify the right bolts. United seems to gave found the smoking gun snd it’s systematic. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5095 "2024-01-08T22:39:47Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Not seeing a yikes. The yikes is that you can see at least two bolts that aren’t even finger-tight. Not the kind of thing you want to see immediately upon removing the interior panels of your aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5096 "2024-01-08T22:48:27Z")
Yeah it doesn’t appear to be specifically a “yikes” in terms of the door falling off but it’s a “yikes” for quality control. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5097 "2024-01-08T23:10:34Z")
D’oh!!! I totally missed the not-even finger tight. Guess I should apply for a job as QC at Spirit Aerosystems. They’ll have a very low rework rate while I’m on the job. 🙂 In my defense I’m on my phone. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5098 "2024-01-08T23:17:11Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Yeah it doesn’t appear to be specifically a “yikes” in terms of the door falling off It’s hard to be sure, but I think the bracket is actually being pushed up by the spring. I.e., _none_ of the bolts are actually tight, and the only thing keeping it from separating further is the fact that it’s sorta jammed upward at an angle. Regardless, at least two of the bolts have no torque on them at all. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5099 "2024-01-08T23:40:15Z")
Now that I zoomed in & thought, I think you’ve nailed it. Not quite sure what the consequences of those particular bolts backing out will be but it isn’t helpful, that’s for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2024, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5100 "2024-01-09T00:22:58Z")
From the NTSB Flickr account: [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53450362798_d0c8740490_b.jpg "DCA24MA063") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/ntsb/53450362798/) The green bracket that had loose bolts on the United aircraft appears to be on the bottom right of the picture. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2024, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5101 "2024-01-09T01:00:03Z")
> **[Japanese TV reconstructs JAL A350 evacuation from passenger footage](https://theaircurrent.com/feed/dispatches/japanese-tv-reconstructs-jal-a350-evacuation-from-passenger-footage/)** > > Japanese broadcaster ANN reassembled footage shot by passengers aboard Japan Airlines Flight 516 that collided with a Japan Coast Guard Dash 8-300 on Tuesday evening into a comprehensive picture of what went on aboard the A350-900 in the minutes that... Since some of us are a bit weak in Japanese, could those of you who understand the language point out the more interesting comments? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2024, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5102 "2024-01-09T01:12:38Z")
Here’s a post on X showing a diagram of the door plug: > [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=254) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=256)