# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 272
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2024, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5423 "2024-01-30T17:58:41Z")
Thanks, **LSLGuy** , for your thoughts on convicting somebody for the federal offense of interfering with flight crew. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2024, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5424 "2024-01-30T22:39:05Z")
I have an unimportant question to ask @LSLGuy: I’m curious what model jets you flew toward the end of your career. I’ve gleaned (perhaps incorrectly?) that you captained 737s but I wonder if that includes all types or only certain ones (e.g. 737 NGs but not MAXes). Thanks ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2024, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5425 "2024-01-31T01:00:59Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > Oh I have a good sense of the scope of work required, having participated (though not deeply) in an icing project on old aircraft types, but it “feels like” a “turn switch off after 5 minutes” relay would be simple, though I assume you actually want it to stay on longer if you are in icing conditions? That’s definitely more complicated to detect and design. The issue AIUI, is that A/I should not be left on above a certain temperature. This applies identically to both NGs and MAXs with the same temperature value. If the actual temperature is above that limit temp, A/I _should_ be turned off promptly. The airplane (NG & MAX) both have automatic reminders for that. As I read the new limitations, on the MAX only, the A/I _MUST_ be turned off within 5 minutes above that temp. So all you really need is to connect a cut-off relay with a 5-minute timer to the existing high temperature signal. But: … If the temp drops back below the limit, when/how does that reset the relay? How does the relay communicate to the crew that although the A/I switches are [on], in reality the system is [off]. And how does the crew re-arm the system to use again? etc. it’s simple until you dig into it. > [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > I’m curious what model jets you flew toward the end of your career. I’ve gleaned (perhaps incorrectly?) that you captained 737s but I wonder if that includes all types or only certain ones (e.g. 737 NGs but not MAXes). My last role was Captain on both 737 NGs and MAXs. I don’t have a formal breakdown of my time in each flavor but I’d WAG it at about 75% NG / 25% MAX; I got onto the 737 fleet just as we were building up our MAX fleet before the long grounding after the two crashes. My carrier only had -800s and MAX8s, so I never dealt with the other sizes of 737, but other than different weights and some kinesthetic feel issues, there’s no functional difference between a 700, 800, 900 or between a MAX8 or MAX9 (and maybe someday the MAX7 & MAX10 😉 ). The rest of my airline career included 767s, 757s, 727s, 717s, DC-9s of several sizes, and the MD-80/82/83. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2024, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5426 "2024-01-31T01:14:14Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The rest of my airline career included 767s, 757s, 727s, 717s, DC-9s of several sizes, and the MD-80/82/83. I don’t know if this is even a sensible question, given the tremendous variation in the automation involved in the different generations, but which airplane did you prefer to fly? Do you think you would have liked to fly an Airbus with its fleet-standard fly-by-wire tech? ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2024, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5427 "2024-01-31T01:18:54Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > My carrier only had -800s and MAX8s, so I never dealt with the other sizes of 737, but other than different weights and some kinesthetic feel issues, there’s no functional difference between a 700, 800, 900 or between a MAX8 or MAX9 (and maybe someday the MAX7 & MAX10 😉 ). Thanks for the answer. So those are the models of 737 you flew at your carrier. Were (are) you certified to fly every type of 737 or just the above mentioned? And, bonus question, do we every get to learn what airline you worked for? It’s not important at all, of course. Just curious. I imagine it could be sussed out from your many posts but I don’t know how much importance you place on your erstwhile company being Anonymous Airlines. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5428 "2024-02-01T07:31:22Z")
I’ve fallen _way_ behind on this thread, but I thought I’d drop back in for a quick story. I think I’ve mentioned before that my dad was a pilot, but I don’t think I’ve mentioned my uncle. He was a private pilot for as long as I can remember. We lived a thousand miles away, back when that was a lot, so we only got to see him every few years on summer vacations. I think he may have taken me on my first plane flight, certainly my first time in a small plane. I remember thinking it was kinda strange looking, with a v-shaped tail. I saw him off-and-on over the years. I always looked forward to those visits, and he’d take me flying. The last time was five or six years ago. He invited me out to Montana. We did a motorcycle trip through Yellowstone, and he took me for a flight again. He was still a Bonanza guy; almost new, glass cockpit, conventional tail. As of today, that was the last time I was up in a small plane. He passed away on December 30th. I was out in California for a small memorial service. There’ll be a larger gathering, more of a celebration, this spring, at the small airport near where he and my dad grew up. So, fellow pilots, next time you’re swapping stories around the hangar, raise a glass to my uncle Les. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5429 "2024-02-01T18:39:37Z")
A finance update: [Boeing defense business narrows losses as company battles MAX crisis - Breaking Defense](https://breakingdefense.com/2024/01/boeing-defense-business-narrows-losses-as-company-battles-max-crisis/?utm_campaign=Above%20the%20Law%20Daily&utm_medium=email&_hsmi=292345430&_hsenc=p2ANqtz--Mn4RGAdrEVbHuvGZBYQAVyf4BqN5wGi6YL7Va--HXUgMWTaA3j8Vdekzpyif6lkmAgMhtVV_XQzvKspZ5ElQFbPcqkw&utm_content=292345430&utm_source=hs_email) ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5430 "2024-02-01T18:59:04Z")
> **[Hangar collapse at Boise Airport in Idaho kills 3, injures 9](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/02/01/boise-hangar-collapse-airport-idaho/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJyZWFzb24iOiJnaWZ0IiwibmJmIjoxNzA2NzYzNjAwLCJpc3MiOiJzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIiwiZXhwIjoxNzA4MTQ1OTk5LCJpYXQiOjE3MDY3NjM2MDAsImp0aSI6ImRkNTU5MmVkLTFiY2UtNDQwOC1hYjEwLTRjMTBjMjViMzNiNSIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS9uYXRpb24vMjAyNC8wMi8wMS9ib2lzZS1oYW5nYXItY29sbGFwc2UtYWlycG9ydC1pZGFoby8ifQ.a4dW3Iua7MHLeUk3rdwkPyiQKbd20Uh3RLmESUdwxBo&itid=gfta)** > > The building had been under construction, officials said, describing “catastrophic collapse of a metal structure.” The cause was not immediately clear. (Gift link.) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5431 "2024-02-01T23:41:43Z")
Not sure why I thought it would be a small hanger but that looks like a hanger for a large commercial plane. it seems very strange that the roof beams are all warped in the center. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5432 "2024-02-02T13:06:42Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > looks like a hanger for a large commercial plane It’s a miracle the headline wasn’t “Boeing-sized hangar collapse…” ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5433 "2024-02-02T16:39:25Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > So, fellow pilots, next time you’re swapping stories around the hangar, raise a glass to my uncle Les. Yaay for Les and a live well-lived, at least in the air. > [@Magiver](#): > > Not sure why I thought it would be a small hanger but that looks like a hanger for a large commercial plane. it seems very strange that the roof beams are all warped in the center. Looks to me like a standard biz-jet / RJ storage & maintenance hangar. 200 - 300 feet of unsupported span, 30 or 40 foot-tall doors, but nowhere near tall enough to accommodate the vertical tail of a narrowbody airliner. I’m not sure what you mean by “warped”, but it looks to me like the thing buckled right down the center and we see the two ends tilted in at ~45 degrees. The article mentions a crane collapsing. Perhaps a construction crane had a boom failure, or simply tipped over, then the crane top (and any load) landed roughly mid-span on the hangar, failing the seam there in overload. Without a roof installed yet to stabilize and spread the forces, you’d expect a cascade failure along the center seam. In the alternative, maybe they were just in the process of securing all those center seam items when something slipped and whacked something else. Half-assembled buildings are far more rickety than when they are done. Or somebody used too short or the wrong bolts, or left out a few, etc. Where have we heard that recently? ;). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2024, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5434 "2024-02-03T02:24:59Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Looks to me like a standard biz-jet / RJ storage & maintenance hangar. 200 - 300 feet of unsupported span, 30 or 40 foot-tall doors, but nowhere near tall enough to accommodate the vertical tail of a narrowbody airliner. Could be. I watched a large hanger being built prior to covid. it had peak roof beams and was about 63,000 sq ft. It would have taken something the size of a 767 but likely used for multiple regional jets. It was stick built with cranes. If I remember correctly the wall beams were bolted down first and then the truss beams were set in place one pair at a time. The foam system was monstrous. 4 huge underground tanks to hold water. It was fun watching them test the flow before they buried the tanks. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2024, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5435 "2024-02-03T05:23:25Z")
[RFB Fantrainer](https://www.youtube.com/@DarkDocsSkies) This was a mid-engine pusher shrouded-fan trainer that never gained much traction. Interesting design. It was designed to give the pilot the feel of a jet while significantly reducing initial costs, and fuel costs. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2024, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5436 "2024-02-03T12:41:25Z")
If you prefer to not watch a video: > **[RFB Fantrainer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFB_Fantrainer)** > > The RFB Fantrainer (or Fan Trainer) is a two-seat flight training aircraft which uses a mid-mounted ducted fan propulsion system. Developed and manufactured by German aircraft company Rhein-Flugzeugbau GmbH (RFB), it has been used by the Royal Thai Air Force. > Development of the Fantrainer commenced during the 1970s. In Germany, it was selected as the winner of a competition for the Luftwaffe's Basic Trainer Requirement, having beat both the Pilatus PC-7 and Beechcraft Mentor. However, no orders... ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2024, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5437 "2024-02-03T19:59:17Z")
I have read reports it was windy when the hangar (under construction) collapsed. So: can geese bring down a helicopter? > **[Goose found in flight control of medical helicopter that crashed in Oklahoma,...](https://apnews.com/article/oklahoma-helicopter-crash-geese-ambulance-902e9f59698244ae8c3390e73d501e9a)** > > Federal investigators say a dead goose was found within a medical helicopter that crashed in western Oklahoma, killing three people on board. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2024, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5438 "2024-02-04T12:48:39Z")
Wow. They shoulda let Maverick fly it. (Sorry). ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5439 "2024-02-05T11:22:02Z")
> **[Boeing on thin ice with Emirates, as new delays announced](https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/02/05/boeing-on-thin-ice-with-emirates-as-new-delays-announced)** > > Boeing in the 'last chance saloon' warns Emirates boss Sir Tim Clark, as the manufacturer's crisis continues. Big takeaway here: Emirates is sending their own engineers to Boeing facilities to supervise the production lines. _That_ could get awkward in a hurry. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5440 "2024-02-05T12:04:25Z")
The choice of metaphor is a little odd, since the Saudis don’t drink. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5441 "2024-02-05T13:29:41Z")
So is yours, since Emirates is owned by the Emirate of Dubai in the United Arab Emirates (/pedantic mode) That noted, the UAE folks don’t drink either, but based on my experiences (non-passenger aviation), they are tough negotiators and will hire the best folks to check things out. Awkward is right. Press on. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5442 "2024-02-05T13:43:05Z")
The story of a trailblazer … > **[Air Canada's first female pilot recalls sector's sexist hurdles on route to...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/air-canada-female-pilot-1.7104646)** > > Judy Cameron has 23,000 hours of flying, a scholarship and an Order of Canada membership to her name. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=271) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=273)