# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 273
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5443 "2024-02-05T15:27:46Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#): > > So is yours, since Emirates is owned by the Emirate of Dubai in the United Arab Emirates (/pedantic mode) You’re quite right, and thank you for the correction. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5444 "2024-02-05T16:13:29Z")
Boeing seems to be in aviation news a lot. > **[Boeing pushes back T-7 plans due to faulty parts](https://www.defensenews.com/air/2024/02/05/boeing-pushes-back-t-7-plans-due-to-faulty-parts/)** > > Boeing said the companies that produced the parts with quality problems acted quickly to fix them, and it is moving to finish building the final test jets. Boeing is having trouble with their delivery schedule for the new T-7 Red Hawk advanced trainer because of quality problems in their supply chain. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5445 "2024-02-05T16:21:47Z")
The numbers across the industry remain very skewed in favor of men. There’s progress, for sure, and lots of activity aimed at attracting girls and women into aviation and engineering (and STEM in general) but there’s still a ways to go. Lots of fantastic women leading the way in mentoring, identifying barriers and having conversations about their experiences and successes, just as this story does. My current employer has less than 20% female staff in engineering roles, though to be fair it is a small firm so each individual causes a big percentage change - I am one of two in my department! I’m told the former owner (gone maybe 10 years now) refused to hire women at all because he thought of himself as “old school”. My former employer did a study that showed that hiring at entry level was about at rates equal to women’s graduation rates from engineering (I think 30ish percent depending on discipline), but by the time you hit senior positions it was less than 4%. I did feel they were reacting appropriately to that, to study the causes of the lack of employee retention overall, including systemic gender (or other minority) biases but it’ll take time to see the results in terms of balance. I stumbled onto this industry in my mid 20s, I didn’t have anyone in my life who suggested it to me or encouraged me to explore it, certainly not female role models. I can fortunately say I haven’t experienced any glaring, blatant sexism, but there’s definitely still systemic and societal issues that I can’t deny have impacted me. Just important to keep going I guess! I’m no trailblazer, but if I contribute to inspiring anyone else, that’ll be pretty cool. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5446 "2024-02-05T19:05:08Z")
> Boeing said late Sunday that an employee of a supplier alerted managers about improperly drilled holes. The head of Boeing’s commercial airplanes division said some planes that have not yet been delivered to airlines will need to be reworked, but he said the issue did not affect the safety of Max jetliners that are already flying. > **[Boeing flags potential delays after supplier finds another problem with some...](https://apnews.com/article/boeing-spirit-drill-fuselage-airlines-2e512b434264625f2e6d128d43220a0f)** > > Boeing discovered another problem in some of its 737 Max fuselages that may delay deliveries of about 50 aircraft in the latest quality gaffe to plague the manufacturer. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5447 "2024-02-05T19:34:45Z")
According to a post at airliners dot net, ‘There are approximately 357,000 parts in 737-300/-400/-500s. About 600,000 bolts and rivets fasten these parts together.’ ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5448 "2024-02-05T20:18:24Z")
Yeah but like how many of them are, like, _necessary_ ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5449 "2024-02-05T20:51:52Z")
Evidently at least a few fewer than are included in the full bill of parts. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5450 "2024-02-05T22:25:40Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Yeah but like how many of them are, like, _necessary_ Some of us, after having done a major repair (car for example), and putting everything back together have ended up with some parts left over. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5451 "2024-02-05T22:41:18Z")
That was a fun plot point in _Ford vs Ferrari_ where Shelby tosses a bolt into Ferrari’s paddock… ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2024, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5452 "2024-02-05T23:39:39Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Some of us, after having done a major repair (car for example), and putting everything back together have ended up with some parts left over. Maxim 39: There is a difference between _spare_ parts and _extra_ parts. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5453 "2024-02-06T06:39:03Z")
> [@Tride](#): > > That was a fun plot point in _Ford vs Ferrari_ where Shelby tosses a bolt into Ferrari’s paddock… A nut, and it looked like a lug nut. Which is odd, because neither the Ford nor Ferrari used lug nuts to hold the wheels on. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5454 "2024-02-06T16:20:54Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Some of us, after having done a major repair (car for example), and putting everything back together have ended up with some parts left over. Hehe, I was once watching Don Garlits’ pit crew tear down and put his hemi back together (top fuel engines get torn down and put back together after every run). When they were done, they just walked away from the car without test starting it. One of the crowd asked: “You’re not going to make sure it runs?” They replied: “We know it runs, we don’t have any spare parts.” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5455 "2024-02-06T18:22:28Z")
Cute story: [https://www.cnn.com/travel/married-southwest-pilots/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/travel/married-southwest-pilots/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5456 "2024-02-06T21:54:39Z")
NTSB report on the door incident: > **[report\_dca24ma063\_193617\_2\_6\_2024-2\_15\_12-pm.pdf](https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24410269/report_dca24ma063_193617_2_6_2024-2_15_12-pm.pdf)** > > 12.98 MB > Overall, the observed damage patterns and absence of contact damage or deformation around holes associated with the vertical movement arrestor bolts and upper guide track bolts in the upper guide fittings, hinge fittings, and recovered aft lower hinge guide fitting indicate that the four bolts that prevent upward movement of the MED plug were missing before the MED plug moved upward off the stop pads. Oops. Lots of good images showing that there are no bolts to be found. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2024, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5457 "2024-02-06T22:45:41Z")
No bolts, and (more tellingly) no damage where bolts used to be but were traumatically removed or broken. They just weren’t there, so the plug was inadequately restrained. > Overall, the observed damage patterns and absence of contact damage or deformation around holes associated with the vertical movement arrestor bolts and upper guide track bolts in the upper guide fittings, hinge fittings, and recovered aft lower hinge guide fitting indicate that the four bolts that prevent upward movement of the MED plug were missing before the MED plug moved upward off the stop pads. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2024, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5458 "2024-02-07T00:24:50Z")
I’m amazed at the existence of the photo from the interior liner installers, who happened to have texted each other about the work on an upcoming shift, the day the Non Conformance Report was closed and in the photo, 3 of the 4 locations happen to be visible and no bolts are in evidence. What a coincidence to have taken that photo! I’ve got a gazillion photos of random plane parts I’ve texted to colleagues about but I doubt most of those photos will ever be evidence of anything. I certainly hope not, either! ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2024, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5459 "2024-02-07T01:04:03Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > [U.S. military confirms Osprey crash in Japan left at least 1 dead, says search for 7 continues - CBS News](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/osprey-crash-japan-us-crew-missing-search-rescue-japanese-ask-ground-ospreys/) Two articles pubished today: > **[CMV-22B Osprey "Not Operationally Suitable" According To Test Report](https://www.twz.com/news-features/cmv-22b-osprey-not-operationally-suitable-according-to-test-report)** > > Pentagon testers highlight major issues with the Navy's Osprey as the entire V-22 fleet remains grounded following a deadly crash. > **[The Pentagon believes it has identified the problem behind Osprey fatal crash...](https://apnews.com/article/osprey-crash-air-force-japan-marines-25735c50f2c3688a13b88eded00af1a0)** > > The Pentagon believes it has identified the mechanical failure in an Osprey aircraft that led to a fatal crash in Japan and the grounding of the fleet for two months. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2024, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5460 "2024-02-07T02:17:20Z")
Who makes the Osprey, again? Oops. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2024, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5461 "2024-02-07T02:54:02Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > so the plug was inadequately restrained Or rather, not restrained at all except by gravity. Which is being partly countered by the springs. Pretty sure that doesn’t meet… rigorous… aerospace engineering standards. The plug actually seems to be well-designed to my eye. The load is nicely spread out among the 12 stop pins/fittings, which don’t need any lateral constraints since the load is entirely radial. The combination of lower hinge and upper guide fitting means the door slots nicely up and over the stop fittings when it’s being opened/closed. Just a few bolts are needed to keep it in place, and said bolts experience almost no load themselves. It’s fairly crucial though that the bolts are actually there… ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2024, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5462 "2024-02-07T02:54:48Z")
Bell. and also Boeing [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=272) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=274)