# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 277
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5523 "2024-02-20T02:10:20Z")
Well, the commonwealth countries flew a lot of Short Skyvans back in the day, but those are a lot bigger than a Cessna 210 or even a Caravan. They are also much uglier. They look like the box the airplane came in. > **[Short SC.7 Skyvan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_SC.7_Skyvan)** > > The Short SC.7 Skyvan (nicknamed the "Flying Shoebox") is a British 19-seat twin-turboprop aircraft manufactured by Short Brothers of Belfast, Northern Ireland. It is used mainly for short-haul freight and skydiving. > The Short 330 and Short 360 are stretched models of the original SC.7, designed as regional airliners. A military version developed from this family is the C-23 Sherpa. > In 1958, Short was approached by F.G. Miles Ltd (successor company to Miles Aircraft) which was seeking backin... ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5524 "2024-02-20T03:29:55Z")
If I can fight my way through the storage room (junk room) and find my photographs I’ll be able to post what it was. It can easily be a case of mis-remembering but it stumped someone at the time who really knew airplanes. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5525 "2024-02-20T06:39:06Z")
Could it be the Gippsland Aeronautics GA8 Airvan? [![](https://live.staticflickr.com/2590/4145986071_21625f13d5_b.jpg) ](https://live.staticflickr.com/2590/4145986071_21625f13d5_b.jpg) > **[GippsAero GA8 Airvan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GippsAero_GA8_Airvan)** > > The GippsAero GA8 Airvan 8 is a single-engined utility aircraft manufactured by GippsAero (formerly named Gippsland Aeronautics) of Victoria, Australia. It can seat up to eight people, including the pilot. > The GA8 has been designed for use in remote areas and from austere air strips, performing tasks such as passenger services, freight, sightseeing, parachuting, observation, and intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) and search and rescue operations. Its design emphasises ruggedn... I’d initially discounted it as a contender because you’d mentioned it being from a big name company and GippsAero isn’t a big name. Looking through the wikipedia article though, I see it was renamed the Mahindra GA8 at Oshkosh 2014 after GippsAero was purchased by Mahindra. Still not a household name like Lockheed, but Mahindra might fit the bill as a large international company not normally associated with producing aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5526 "2024-02-20T15:30:50Z")
At a glance, I would have thought that was a Cessna 208… especially in the CAP livery. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5527 "2024-02-20T16:59:59Z")
In other news, here’s an interesting oops from a couple days ago: > **[Marathon E195 operating for Air Serbia severely damaged](https://www.exyuaviation.com/2024/02/marathon-e195-operating-for-air-serbia.html)** > > Marathon Airlines E195 jet operating on behalf of Air Serbia sustains significant damage in take-off incident. Nobody hurt, but that’s not gonna buff out. This is apparently the old story of somebody calculating takeoff data for one runway scenario then trying to use that data on a different or partial-length runway. How exactly these folks managed to make a midfield takeoff when they’d planned full-length at a single-runway airport will be an interesting tale if we ever get it. I can think of several ways to make that mistake, some much more likely / reasonable than others. The really ugly thing is that once you’re at non-trivial speed heading towards a runway end that’s closer than you expected and maybe closer than you’ve yet noticed, you’re totally in no-man’s land decision-wise. You have no idea if you can stop or takeoff or both or neither in the remaining distance. There _is_ a max abort speed for the situation you started from. But you have no idea what it is or (worse) was. All you know, in the generic sense of background knowledge, not of actionable parameters, is that the later you figure out your mistake the worse the outcome. Aside: It was mildly annoying that I had to read several articles to find one that had pix of even the same type of airplane, much less the actual accident aircraft. Lots of stock pix of random jets at random places. Because every article _must_ have a picture of _something_. Grrr! ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5528 "2024-02-20T17:05:57Z")
Here’s an interesting development. Tibet is not exactly independent of China, but this isn’t quite the usual story of a state-owned airline buying airplanes from a state-owned factory whether they like it or not. > **[Singapore Airshow: Tibet Airlines Finalizes Order for 50 COMAC Aircraft](https://airwaysmag.com/tibet-airlines-orders-50-comac-aircraft/)** > > Tibet Airlines has finalized an order for 40 COMAC C919 and 10 ARJ21 jets at the Singapore Airshow. The C919 will never be more than a niche aircraft, but there’s a decent chance it’ll be a commercial “success” by the metrics appropriate to a pathfinder product of a new manufacturer breaking into the biz. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5529 "2024-02-20T18:08:31Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Nobody hurt, but that’s not gonna buff out. Heh, saw that on the blancolirio YT channel over the weekend. _”It was at that moment,Your Captain realized, he’d f——d up”_ situation, for sure, but at the point you run out of options you have to do the most of the one you’re left with. Gotta say, Embraer makes ‘em tough. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5530 "2024-02-20T22:44:38Z")
Runway lights? Were they mounted on a brick building? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5531 "2024-02-20T23:42:19Z")
Well… from other sources it seems he took out a whole bunch of [other gear](https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/marathon-e195-belgrade/) as he [overran the runway by 500 **meters**](https://avherald.com/h?article=5151ede4) before becoming airborne (more pics and graphics in that last link). ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2024, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5532 "2024-02-21T06:43:33Z")
They would be the high intensity approach lighting for the opposite runway. They’re a significant installation. [![](https://hmiduluth.com/images/paste.jpg) ](https://hmiduluth.com/images/paste.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2024, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5533 "2024-02-21T15:18:16Z")
Interesting indeed. Per Wikipedia Tibet Airlines has a current fleet of 43 aircraft, all Airbus A319/320 variations, so this is either doubling the size of their fleet or they will sell/lease back the Airbus planes once the C919 and ARJ21 planes come on-line. And that Serbian Air; I knew there was a reason I liked flying on Embraer planes. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2024, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5534 "2024-02-21T15:56:21Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > They would be the high intensity approach lighting for the opposite runway. You know the single line of strobes on approach? [The ones that ‘move’ toward the runway?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xM-Y245kUo) I’ve always wondered how ‘fast’ they ‘travel’. [Per the FAA:](https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/service_units/techops/navservices/lsg/als#:~:text=The%20lights%20are%20spaced%20at,II%2C%20and%20CAT%20III).) > The lights are spaced at 100’ intervals from the runway threshold outward to 2400’. Systems include sequenced flashing lights, which appear to the pilot as a ball of light traveling towards the runway at high speed (twice a second) and provide visual guidance for all landing categories (CAT I, CAT II, and CAT III). So 2,400 feet twice per second. That makes 4,800 feet per second, or 3,272.727 smph, or 2843.922 kt. That seems incredibly fast. Did I do the math wrong? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2024, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5535 "2024-02-21T16:40:36Z")
Those approach lights are designed to be “frangible”. As in break off easily. They’re still getting whacked with an aluminum mallet at ~140mph, so damage to the mallet (AKA aircraft) is to be expected. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2024, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5536 "2024-02-21T19:05:44Z")
That’s what the nose gear is for. If they’re hitting the wing root then they’re driving over them and not flying. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2024, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5537 "2024-02-21T19:28:42Z")
Boeing found its sacrificial lamb: > **[Boeing ousts head of 737 jetliner program, appoints new vice president of...](https://apnews.com/article/boeing-737-quality-ed-clark-fafcceb3a58aaded9c3afe96cf7a9fce)** > > Boeing says the head of its 737 jetliner program is leaving the company immediately, paving the way for the aircraft maker to appoint new leadership at the troubled division. > Boeing also named Elizabeth Lund to the new position of senior vice president for BCA Quality, where she will lead quality control and quality assurance efforts. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2024, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5538 "2024-02-21T21:48:02Z")
Unless she gets authority to fire and to reorganize at will, and authority to delay at will, she’s simply the next sacrificial lamb. I sure dont know which she is. But there will be blood. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2024, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5539 "2024-02-21T21:54:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That’s what the nose gear is for. If they’re hitting the wing root then they’re driving over them and not flying. The nose gear cannot clear a path as wide as the engines are. They totally entered the light field with all three feet firmly planted on the ground and still trying to build speed to rotate. A shitty spot to find oneself. The smart pilot in that unwelcome circumstance has already offset left or right enough to not run up the centerline lights. You ideally want your outboard engine on the inboard side to be outside of the footprint of the red sidebar lights. Put your outboard gear leg close to the runway edge lights and you’ll be close on an ICAO 50m wide runway. At least if you’re flying a 2-engine RJ on NB. It gets worse on a widebody; lots worse. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2024, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5540 "2024-02-21T21:59:55Z")
I wish her luck, the rot goes deep. Over time, cheating, short cuts, “not-my-job” attitudes become ingrained. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2024, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5541 "2024-02-21T22:24:53Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The nose gear cannot clear a path as wide as the engines are. Absolutely. That’s why I said they drove through them instead of flying. It boggles the mind. I would think that would be a hard thing to explain. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2024, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5542 "2024-02-21T23:10:47Z")
If you get to the end of the runway too fast to stop and too slow to fly, you’re kinda stuck. Gotta do something. The least bad answer sux mightily and is not obvious. Yeah, how the problem got started a mile behind you 45 seconds ago is gonna be tough to explain to the Boss. But right now it’s time to do some of that pilot shit and help 120 people to live to see tomorrow. Any brain bytes spent on recriminations right then is dangerous wasted effort that can’t help; only hurt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=276) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=278)