# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/541 "2015-11-13T07:15:56Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I don’t follow you **Gus**. > > Yes, all else equal less bleed air for pressurization would be helpful to fuel consumption. > > But the higher you fly the more differential pressure you need to maintain a comfortable cabin. So you need it to be extra-air tight, not less. And you still need X amount of airflow from bleed air for ventilation. > > So overall I’m not seeing how higher altitude benefits bleed air consumption. Maybe I’m looking at from the wrong end of the telescope though. I’ll try to splain better. 747 = lots of places for leaks so more $ per sq.ft of pressure vessel to seal enough to maintain pressure for people. Lear-24 has a lot smaller pressure vessel so a better seal is cheaper per /sq/ft. And easier. Bleed air maybe more or less free for all practical purposes in today’s engine, I have no clue but was assuming a 1% loss of engine efficiency or whatever it might be, would add up. I am probably totally wrong about that, I have no knowledge of bleed air for the most part in regards to availability and efficiency cost. Small round tubes of .032 AL can hold more pressure than can huge not so round tubes of .032 AL. I seem to remember that the Lear LH 55 could do 55,000’ semi-reliably. Admittedly we are trying to compare a XC Bus to a Ford Cobra which is not really fair. I don’t know the power to weight ratio of jets either when comparing Bizjets vs Big Iron. ??? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/542 "2015-11-19T21:41:19Z")
I recently received a much-forwarded email from an aviation buddy containing this video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIiuyijwKRs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIiuyijwKRs). It was accompanied by the following text. I can’t vouch for the accuracy of the text, but I can vouch that the video is worth watching as a piece of real history involving larger-than-life characters and pioneering machines. Almost no actual flying, but cool nonetheless. > [@Unattributed EMail](#): > > The following is a very rare piece of film, 100 years old. It shows Baron Von Richthofen, doing an external prior to a mission, as well as his putting on a flying suit prior to flight in cold weather. If you look close you will notice Hermann Goering. The Baron was shot down on 21 April 1918 by Roy Brown of the Royal Navy Air Services, a prelude of the R.A.F… The Aussies also claim that one of their machine gunners on the ground shot the Baron down. UK & Aussie Doctors, after the autopsy stated that the fatal bullet was shot from above. The author of this has been very involved as a Director of the Roy Brown Museum in Carleton Place, the home town of Roy. Many letters have been written over the past 3-4 years and finally Roy Brown was inducted into Canada’s Aviation Hall of Fame on 4 June 2015. To think this film is almost 100 years old! > > If you are interested in history or aviation, you cannot miss this footage. It was just posted on line, and I’ve never seen anything like it. It’s from 1917, and it’s an up-close and personal look at the most legendary combat pilot who ever lived, the infamous Red Baron, Manfred Von Richthofen. Watch this extremely rare, extremely old footage and re-live history. > > Anybody interested should read a book called “Who Killed the Red Baron?” which settled it was a Australian shooting from the ground that killed him. His brother Lothar, was in the same unit and shot down some 40+ airplanes himself, survived the war and crashed a passenger plane on takeoff and was killed in 1922. > > The DR 1 tri-plane is interesting too. To offset the torque of a spinning radial engine there is an “extra scallop” on the trailing edge of the top wing; so the wing on that side is slightly larger which gave it a more lift to offset the torque, —introduced late in the war, there were less than 200 DR 1’s made. It’s a pretty big plane compared to most of that period. There was a tri-plane supposedly flown by the Baron that survived the war but was somehow later destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/543 "2015-11-20T06:31:31Z")
Awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/544 "2015-12-01T02:25:02Z")
Completed ground school this month. Unfortunately, I have professional con-ed to complete by the end of the year before I can study for that test. Also can’t buy any flight time recently; they flew Thurs & Fri morning when I wasn’t available & the weekend windows were a bust, that makes zero flights for November. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/545 "2015-12-01T05:45:03Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > Completed ground school this month. > Unfortunately, I have professional con-ed to complete by the end of the year before I can study for that test. Also can’t buy any flight time recently; they flew Thurs & Fri morning when I wasn’t available & the weekend windows were a bust, that makes zero flights for November. Hang tough, you will get there. it is worth doing. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/546 "2015-12-05T23:20:52Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Hang tough, you will get there. it is worth doing. Got up this morning. I can fly just fine but it’s the low level/landings stuff that I need to work on. Of course, the direction we flew today wasn’t good for practicing that. I needed to stop by my friends house on the way home to pick something up, so of course we landed in (almost) his _old_ back yard - the next group of townhouses down from what was his house. Once we touched down, I watch the second-story window & then the shades moved - **SURPRISE** - this is your there’s-a-big-balloon-in-your-backyard-wake-up alarm! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2015, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/547 "2015-12-06T04:25:04Z")
Bawahahahaha ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/548 "2015-12-06T17:25:53Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > I can fly just fine but it’s the low level/landings stuff that I need to work on. That makes you different from exactly no one. 😉 You never truly get landing technique done perfectly, and you never get to be able to stop practicing. It’s not easy to get the idea that you make the airplane do what you want it to do most of the time, but at the most critical part of the flight, you have to largely react to what \*it \*wants to do. Judging height with your peripheral vision is not a natural act, either. Just remember to keep your airspeed on target so you won’t float, and, when you flare, HOLD IT OFF! ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/549 "2015-12-06T18:01:29Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > That makes you different from exactly no one. 😉 You never truly get landing technique done perfectly, and you never get to be able to stop practicing. It’s not easy to get the idea that you make the airplane do what you want it to do most of the time, but at the most critical part of the flight, you have to largely react to what \*it \*wants to do. Judging height with your peripheral vision is not a natural act, either. Just remember to keep your airspeed on target so you won’t float, and, when you flare, HOLD IT OFF! speak for yourself. I went from “ok, that technically qualifies as a landing” to “I own this bitch”. Can’t say that about the approaches but they get the job done. You’re right, everybody suffers through this. It was another 50 hrs AFTER I got my license before landings truly clicked. The license is only a certification that you probably won’t kill yourself while you continue learning. At some point I started doing a lot of emergency landings and somewhere in that process it clicked. It really brings home the idea of a stabilized approach. Now I look at takeoff and landings and think through what would happen if I lost an engine. I change my tactics accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/550 "2015-12-06T22:06:24Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > speak for yourself. I went from “ok, that technically qualifies as a landing” to “I own this bitch”. Can’t say that about the approaches but they get the job done. > > You’re right, everybody suffers through this. It was another 50 hrs AFTER I got my license before landings truly clicked. The license is only a certification that you probably won’t kill yourself while you continue learning. > > At some point I started doing a lot of emergency landings and somewhere in that process it clicked. It really brings home the idea of a stabilized approach. Now I look at takeoff and landings and think through what would happen if I lost an engine. I change my tactics accordingly. No carry that one more step. What will I do in **this** airplane as it quits there, there, there & there before I am committed? Now do the same for the next five miles of flight in any direction. For this **airport.** Second set of “I will” for the other\*\* 5 \*\*most common fields you use. Do same for\*\* landing\*\* at those airports for each approach & other non IFR runways they have. I am alive because of this habit. Sometimes, if you think when you only have time to do, prelaid plans and thought about the specif plans is the difference. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/551 "2015-12-08T12:18:11Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > That makes you different from exactly no one. 😉 You never truly get landing technique done perfectly, and you never get to be able to stop practicing. It’s not easy to get the idea that you make the airplane do what you want it to do most of the time, but at the most critical part of the flight, you have to largely react to what \*it \*wants to do. Judging height with your peripheral vision is not a natural act, either. Just remember to keep your airspeed on target so you won’t float, and, when you flare, HOLD IT OFF! Seriously, thank you for the encouragement & advice; however, > [@Spiderman](#): > > there’s-a-big- **balloon** -in-your-backyard once we take off, air (wind) speed is beyond our control & floating is acceptable. Got up again Sunday afternoon. One kinda hard touch-&-go, two more decent ones, & then a pillow-soft landing at the end (when the winds calmed out). Yay, I got it by the fourth one! Maybe I _can_ do this. Now there’s just lots of practice to make sure I can do that _every_ time, & of course building on that to be able to do the tougher landings (windy/ripout, smaller space, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/552 "2015-12-08T13:23:05Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > Got up again Sunday afternoon. One kinda hard touch-&-go, two more decent ones, & then a pillow-soft landing at the end (when the winds calmed out). Yay, I got it by the fourth one! Maybe I _can_ do this. > Now there’s just lots of practice to make sure I can do that _every_ time, & of course building on that to be able to do the tougher landings (windy/ripout, smaller space, etc.) Ah, you won’t get it perfect every time. I’ve always striven for consistently mediocre, the key word being “consistently”. I still haven’t got it, the vast majority are good, and then once a year or so I seem to manage to stuff it up somehow or another. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/553 "2015-12-12T19:49:10Z")
[Great use for old sectionals](http://i.imgur.com/WRVrBgq.jpg) I’ve been doing that since I learned to fly in the '80s. I rarely get the chance to fly nowadays, and there aren’t that many people I buy presents for anymore. (Fewer still, who would appreciate it.) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/554 "2015-12-12T22:28:15Z")
Wrong thread. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/555 "2015-12-12T23:32:51Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [Great use for old sectionals](http://i.imgur.com/WRVrBgq.jpg) > > I’ve been doing that since I learned to fly in the '80s. I rarely get the chance to fly nowadays, and there aren’t that many people I buy presents for anymore. (Fewer still, who would appreciate it.) Been to a couple of those places. I have done it but not in a few years. Who cares if they understand, I just like the look. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2015, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/556 "2015-12-13T02:18:06Z")
I used to do that with 'em too. It’s good strong paper. Nowadays I’d like to have some of those old ones back. The ones from my youth showing all the small airports I’ve flown through that have since been converted to suburban housing, all the NDBs that don’t now exist, all the FSS that are closed, all the airspace you can’t now fly though nordo VFR, etc. Sometimes “progress” is a heavy burden. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2015, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/557 "2015-12-13T04:32:17Z")
Way back, I got Dad’s out of date ones. They still had many of the radio ranges on them and only a few VORs. I kept them for a long time, until the early 70’s. I have no memory of what I did with them. ::: sigh ::: ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2016, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/558 "2016-01-04T05:01:59Z")
There seems to be a local acrobatic area just south/south/east of us as I am hearing and seeing acrobatic and some Pvt. & Com. maneuvers being done on the pretty calm days lately. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/559 "2016-01-12T21:10:41Z")
[FAA Issues New Student-Pilot Rules](http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/FAA-Issues-New-Student-Pilot-Rules-225505-1.html) > [@](#): > > Under a new rule released today by the FAA, student pilots will no longer get their student pilot certificate from an aviation medical examiner. Instead, they can apply in person at a FSDO, through a designated pilot examiner, with a Part 141 flight school, or a CFI. The TSA will vet the application, and then a plastic certificate will be sent to the student by the Civil Aviation Registry. Earlier proposals to charge a $22 fee and require a photo have been withdrawn. Student pilots still will have to visit an AME to acquire a separate medical certificate. The new rule takes effect April 1. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/560 "2016-01-12T21:53:00Z")
Not making it any easier are they? I’m surprised the FAA has been able to get away with repeatedly punting putting pictures on their licenses out into the future. That became a big deal with ICAO a few years ago. It’s just a matter of time before the FAA relents and adds pix and tamper evidence to licenses. AIUI much of Europe already has them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=29)