# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 289
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5763 "2024-03-20T20:13:23Z")
Sorry, I didn’t mean to press you, I was just wondering whether the reasonable ideal humane treatment you described is what usually happens in the real world. Or if, as is so often sadly the case, perverse incentives prevent the best outcomes. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5764 "2024-03-20T20:34:40Z")
I think the ideal treatment is most likely to happen if the pilot owns up to their problem first, rather than getting caught. This would probably require friends and colleagues noticing and supporting them to make that decision. Secondly, they are more likely to be treated fairly if it’s not a front page news story, which comes back to owning up to it in the first place before it gets a chance to be on the news. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5765 "2024-03-20T21:52:23Z")
plus, you could probably “ingress” your case and situation via your trade-union - hence having somewhat of a big gorilla looking out for you in this whole process. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5766 "2024-03-20T22:33:32Z")
I can’t speak for the US, but in New Zealand we have access to the HIMS (Human Intervention Motivation Study) program. This has the full support of the regulator, the unions, and the major airlines. You might find Brian’s story interesting as it pertains to the discussion upthread: [https://youtu.be/-UCKvxBpQV8?si=fTNFyMlD82\_M6aNn](https://youtu.be/-UCKvxBpQV8?si=fTNFyMlD82_M6aNn) Brian was part of the support network during COVID 2020-2022 when a lot of us lost our jobs. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5767 "2024-03-20T22:37:32Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > I can’t speak for the US, but in New Zealand we have access to the HIMS (Human Intervention Motivation Study) program. This has the full support of the regulator, the unions, and the major airlines. Same at all major US airlines plus / minus a smidgen here and there. Certainly fully true at Delta. There’s rather little of that support at the smallest regional operators and I’m told substantially zero anywhere in the bizjet industry. Which is probably the most drinking-problem inducing segment of the professional piloting industry. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5768 "2024-03-20T23:12:54Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > probably the most drinking-problem inducing segment of the professional piloting industry. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/pl4plPGRG8o/hqdefault.jpg "Airplane! drinking problem") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl4plPGRG8o) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5769 "2024-03-21T00:22:20Z")
I’ve known a fair number of functional alcoholics in my lifetime. but the number of tea-totalers who appeared to restrain from all alcohol is a pretty small number. And I emphasize APPEARED. Given the seriousness of the issue I’d require the pilot to take a blood test before every flight and at his expense. There’s too much at stake. But LSL called it. He’s likely to retire. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5770 "2024-03-21T04:00:42Z")
Should a school bus driver be allowed to continue driving a bus after getting a DUI while sriving the bus? Assuming they successfully completed rehab? I think there’s a pretty sharp distinction between alcoholism and attempting to fly an aircraft woth a few hundred people in the back while drunk. If someone admits to a problem and tgets treatment, for sure they should be allowed to fly again. They have demonstrated a callous disregard for the lives of others. It’s much worse than drunk driving. You’re violating the public’s trust. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5771 "2024-03-21T15:58:32Z")
I sure wouldn’t let him fly one of these babies, when the time comes: [https://www.cnn.com/travel/windrunner-biggest-plane-in-the-world/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/travel/windrunner-biggest-plane-in-the-world/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5772 "2024-03-21T16:54:13Z")
Wow, that is one _fugly_ plane! ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5773 "2024-03-21T22:34:02Z")
That fantasy plane keeps popping on everything I look at. Never going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5774 "2024-03-21T22:38:04Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Should a school bus driver be allowed to continue driving a bus after getting a DUI while driving the bus? Assuming they successfully completed rehab? Blood test before every drive at the driver’s expense until ground temperature is achieved. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5775 "2024-03-21T22:40:02Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > probably the most drinking-problem inducing segment of the professional piloting industry. Elaine? You, Shirley must be kidding … ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5776 "2024-03-21T22:55:06Z")
He’s not. And don’t call him… you know. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5777 "2024-03-21T22:59:04Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Which is probably the most drinking-problem inducing segment of the professional piloting industry. I can speak to this. Yes, I’ve seen some drinking issues on the charter side of the aviation industry. Most of them only rose to the level of, “We’re going to stay at X hotel tonight because they have a better bar.” Knew one guy who got pinged for drinking - not on duty, but while on airport property and wearing his uniform and badge. I believe he had just completed a trip and his duty day, but that’s still a no-no. He should have known better. I have not personally encountered an inebriated, on-duty pilot. But in terms of of pure drinking culture… Many years ago I had a job where I worked with emigres from the former Soviet Union, and I thought they could drink until I met pilots from Alaska. Wow. And like the Russians, if you don’t drink with them, they don’t trust you. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2024, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5778 "2024-03-22T02:18:06Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > Knew one guy who got pinged for drinking - not on duty, but while on airport property and wearing his uniform and badge. I believe he had just completed a trip and his duty day, but that’s still a no-no. He should have known better. This is why you carry a “chardy cardi” in your bag. A jumper (“cardigan”) to wear post duty so you can drink a chardonnay in the airline lounge prior to passengering home. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2024, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5779 "2024-03-22T02:21:22Z")
A Tequila T-Shirt. A Gin Jumper. A Vodka Vest. A Whisky Wifebeater. A… ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2024, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5780 "2024-03-22T06:55:08Z")
Perhaps United is not alone in needing to rethink its maintenance practices: > **[A braking system 'anomaly' caused an American Airlines jet to exceed a Dallas...](https://news.yahoo.com/braking-system-anomaly-caused-american-185006732.html)** > > An American Airlines jetliner that suffered an “anomaly” in the braking system before running past the end of a runway in Texas last month had undergone a brake-replacement job four days earlier, U.S. investigators said Thursday. An inspection... Imagine touching down on the runway and then discovering you have no brakes. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2024, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5781 "2024-03-22T07:57:27Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I sure wouldn’t let him fly one of these babies, when the time comes: [https://www.cnn.com/travel/windrunner-biggest-plane-in-the-world/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/travel/windrunner-biggest-plane-in-the-world/index.html) That plane transports huge blades that will go onto huge wind turbines. They named it _WindRunner_. Why in the world didn’t they name it _BladeRunner_? 🤔 Fail. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2024, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5782 "2024-03-22T13:51:21Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Why in the world didn’t they name it _BladeRunner_? 🤔 > > Fail. Stoopid copyrights! 😠 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=288) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=290)