# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 296
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5903 "2024-04-10T12:01:05Z")
I’ve flown twice domestically in the past couple of years, both Air Canada, and had the breakfast sandwich or one of their wraps. Both times I thought they were really good, especially the breakfast sandwich. I love sandwiches in general though. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5904 "2024-04-10T12:46:30Z")
> **[Another Boeing whistleblower has come forward, this time alleging safety...](https://www.yahoo.com/news/another-boeing-whistleblower-come-forward-192850957.html)** > > A veteran Boeing engineer said parts of the company's 787 and 777 jets were misaligned during assembly, possibly impacting safety on 1,400 planes. Things get worse and worse for Boeing. Now there are whistleblower reports that the Dreamliner could literally crumble midflight when the composites fail. The short version, apparently, is that big sections of the airplane are made by different suppliers, and when they don’t fit together properly, Boeing just sort of jams them together, putting stress on the joining points. Boeing of course denies everything. > **[Congress summons Boeing's CEO to testify on its jetliner safety following new...](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/congress-summons-boeings-ceo-testify-020057929.html)** > > A Senate subcommittee has summoned Boeing CEO David Calhoun to testify about the company's jetliners in an inquiry prompted by new safety-related charges from a whistleblower. The panel said it will hold a hearing next week featuring a Boeing... Regardless, Congress wants to hear about it, in public. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2024, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5905 "2024-04-12T21:24:39Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > This is R/C, but I had to share it. A guy spent two years building a true-to-scale Bentley rotary aircraft engine, and then spent another two years building a 27% scale Avro 504K to put it on. [Here’s a video.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoCjro11ZQ0)… Very cool! What purpose does the wooden skid between the wheels serve? > [@JKellyMap](#): > > This is why I love the Dope. Me, too! Well done, **Pork\_Rind**. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2024, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5906 "2024-04-12T21:37:57Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > What purpose does the wooden skid between the wheels serve? I don’t know, but I’ll make a guess. The Avro 504K’s first flight was in 1913, so it’s a fairly early design. My guess is that the ski is there to prevent the aircraft from nosing over on very soft fields. [Note that the ski sticks out beyond the propeller.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_504#/media/File:Avro_504K_3-view_line_drawing.jpg) If the main gear should get bogged down in mud, the ski should keep the nose out of the ground. (Perhaps it would also help with boggy takeoffs as well?) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2024, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5907 "2024-04-13T00:39:55Z")
That would be my guess. These were tail draggers and as such less stable upon landing. Early landing fields were just that, fields. Instead of a hard runway strip they landed in a large field which allowed them to always land directly into the wind. This made it easier to avoid [ground-looping](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-SyvX4GNII). The single skid probably acted as a ski and kept the plane centered. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2024, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5908 "2024-04-14T00:35:13Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > I was just reading about a Pakistan crash where Mentour Pilot’s latest vid: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/TOOKYR5ZJbQ/maxresdefault.jpg "DEADLY Attitude! The Truly Shocking story of Pakistan Airlines 8303") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOOKYR5ZJbQ) ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2024, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5909 "2024-04-14T00:44:58Z")
Here’s more of our conversation in early March in this thread about this incident. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2024, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5910 "2024-04-14T00:49:04Z")
The conversation actually began here (Feb 26), when the report was released. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2024, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5911 "2024-04-14T11:31:53Z")
(Sorry for the multiple posts - this is my last), It’s actually impressive the idiot captain got the plane down to the runway (with no vertical speed) from like 7,000 feet in just a few miles… but at the expense of literally everything else. I mean _everything._ And talk about a “failure to communicate”! Note how having the gear _up_ while landing led to the engine failures…but having the gear _down_ while essentially gliding toward the runway the second time dropped their chance of making it to zero. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2024, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5912 "2024-04-14T11:41:38Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Note how having the gear _up_ while landing led to the engine failures…but having the gear _down_ while essentially gliding toward the runway the second time dropped their chance of making it to zero. well, you dont want to make the same mistake twice on the same day ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2024, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5913 "2024-04-14T11:47:50Z")
Funny — but surely true! I bet that WAS their thinking. (I use the word “thinking” loosely here). ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5914 "2024-04-15T07:10:56Z")
An airplane landed on a 5 lane road near me. There are airports about 5 miles north west and 6 miles south east of where it landed, but if you don’t have the altitude to make it, then I guess the road will have to do. They said on TV, but not in this article, that if the engine can be repaired they’ll close the road and let the pilot take off. Always makes me think of that scene in _Fandango_. > **[Plane makes emergency landing on U.S. 287 in Boulder County](https://www.dailycamera.com/2024/04/14/plane-makes-emergency-landing-on-u-s-287-in-boulder-county/)** > > An airplane made an emergency landing on U.S. 287 in Boulder County Sunday. > ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5915 "2024-04-15T10:58:59Z")
The sheriff is clearly not a planespotter. In this case, however, the news article does get the type correct. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5916 "2024-04-15T11:05:19Z")
Question for our airline pilots: before my flight from BWI to BOS on Southwest yesterday, the gate agents announced that even though there were 30 empty seats, they were asking for 20 volunteers to gate check bags. By the time I boarded in the C group, with only a handful of people behind me, they still wanted 15 more bags to be checked. I don’t think they got them. On board, I had no trouble finding space for my carry-on and I didn’t notice anyone else having to gate-check because they couldn’t find room in the overhead bins. Why were the gate agents so anxious to have 20 bags checked? Weights and balance? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5917 "2024-04-15T13:25:25Z")
> small single engine Cessna 🙄 It’s clearly a Mooney. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5918 "2024-04-15T13:45:32Z")
Except for agriculture (spraying) models I think all single engine Cessnas are high wing. Except for the 337 (and variants), most of not all multi-engine Cessnas are low wing. Brian ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5919 "2024-04-15T13:58:06Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > Except for agriculture (spraying) models I think all single engine Cessnas are high wing. The [Cessna 400](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_400) is low-wing, but it isn’t a Cessna design. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5920 "2024-04-15T14:29:08Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > It’s clearly a Mooney. I expect that to many people “Cessna” is the name of any small, single engine airplane. At least the newspaper bothered to put in a correction. In the early 80s Mooney was one of my Dad’s clients. The owner/manager/buyer(?) invited the family out for a private tour of the plant and then dinner at his ranch. I don’t remember details of the tour or dinner, other than being fun. It also got me some nice posters of a Mooney plane and cockpit for my bedroom. And some homemade peach wine that sat in a 2 liter coke bottle in our fridge for probably longer than those posters spent on my wall. (End Mooney story) > [@N9IWP](#): > > Except for agriculture (spraying) The section of the road where the plane landed gets agricultural spraying. It can be a bit startling to be driving and have a plane pop up over the trees on one side of the road, cross the road, and dive below the trees on the other side. Initially when I heard a plane landed on 287 I thought it might have been one of the crop dusters. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5921 "2024-04-15T14:47:35Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > I expect that to many people “Cessna” is the name of any small, single engine airplane. I think I mentioned that upthread. It still makes my teeth itch though. At least they didn’t call it a Pipercub [sic]. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/5922 "2024-04-15T15:20:18Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > Why were the gate agents so anxious to have 20 bags checked? Weights and balance? tl;dr: I’m 99% baffled. Long version … That is a puzzler. Weight and balance is not plausible in and of itself (ETA see below). On a 1/4 full airplane, such as we had during the depths of COVID, sometimes you need to ensure they don’t all sit in the forwardmost rows. (Or all in the aft-most rows, but folks don’t tend to do that.) But fiddling with luggage seems counterproductive when the plane is 2/3rds - 3/4ths full. Here’s a pure speculation: One of the oddities of Southwest compared to almost the rest of the industry is their multi-stop through flights. In my career, substantially every flight ended with offloading 100% of the people & their stuff, whether carry-on or below decks. We had a very few flights that were otherwise, where we’d go a long way to a destination, drop off most everyone, then make a short hop to a second city and drop off the rest. In theory we could have picked somebody up for the short hop but I don’t remember it every happening. Those are called “tag-ends” in the industry. _If_ the flight you were making from BWI to BOS was going to continue to wherever, _and_ they knew that next flight was going to be full to bursting, with many of your BWI-BOS passengers staying aboard, _and_ based on historical knowledge that next flight often ran out of overhead space, they could make that flight load faster and easier by absorbing some through baggage below decks now on this less-full flight while the agents had more time per passenger to fiddle with the gate check process. Some cities are (in)famous for the outsized volume of both checked luggage and carry-ons folks bring compared to the system-wide norm. Any city with a cruise port and Orlando are two common examples where it seems the people are all bringing steamer trunks and kitchen sinks. I’m not thinking a BWI-BOS-??? flight makes much sense for this, but it’s all I can think of. ETA: … Actually as I thought some more I’ve got a better idea than the industry trivia above. Two ideas actually. 1. The are shipping a very heavy piece of cargo. Which goes in one of the two holds. For balance they’d like to have a similar weight in the other hold. But so few people check bags on SWA they won’t have enough unless they ask for more bags to check and people cooperate. So yes, W&B. If SWA can load the luggage where _they_ want it, they don’t need to try to get the people to sit in any particular part of the plane to counteract. The people will bitch about that; the bags won’t. 2. They are shipping animal(s). The usual way they’re secured in the hold in their carrier is by building a wall of luggage around most of it/them to prevent the crate from sliding around in there. Again if they don’t have enough luggage to do that, they might solicit more. I’d expect the former situation is more likely than the latter. They carry animals a lot more often than they carry exceptionally big heavy lumps of cargo and if the fort-building for animals was a thing it’d happen often enough people would know about it. This event has much more of a one-off feel to it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=295) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=297)