# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 301
### Author:  [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2024, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6003 "2024-04-24T01:02:33Z")
> [@commasense](#):
>
> I’ve read and completely understood and sympathized with your previous posts about pilots dealing with mental health issues,
Two questions
Was there supports in place to help Russell?
Did he avail himself of them?
If the answers are yes and no respectively, I have no problem with him not being a pilot in the future.
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### Author:  [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2024, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6004 "2024-04-24T01:10:12Z")
> [@PastTense](#):
>
> It is older than I thought: they were produced from 1942–1947, so about 80 years old. Isn’t this too old a plane to still be in use?
It’s old but it does not really surprise me. I flew in a 1944-vintage DC3/C47 (granted, reengined and with updated nav avionics) in 2017. Those Douglas warbirds keep on serving out in the bush largely because they are not fancy.
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2024, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6005 "2024-04-24T02:17:45Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> There must be more to the story.
I know nothing specific about the incident beyond that article I stumbled across.
But based on the duration of the ongoing delays I suspect they were approaching the end of their legal duty day. It can be surprisingly tiring dealing with all this stupidity and so now they’re going to load up the third airplane, do all the prep _again_, and push off the gate with only a handful of minutes until they run out of duty day, then face another 6 or 8 hours of droning across the ocean to the destination? I don’t think so.
The other issue might have been that they got the feeling maintenance was going to be less than thorough in their management-inspired haste to make the flight go with a transitory malfunction that clears long enough to label it “not happening now”, but which is all but sure to recur halfway to the destination. You know, over the middle of the Pacific Ocean.
We get used to trusting out lives to these folks’ normally very sound judgement, but once in awhile you get the feeling one of them is more interested in getting off-shift in an hour, or brown-nosing the boss, than they are in strict compliance with common airplane sense and the regulations around airworthiness.
In that circumstance it’s time to exercise your big bat and say “game over.” Lotta little people and guys with suits and ties can fuss and fume, but when I say we aren’t going in that jet, … well, we aren’t going in that jet. That’s why we earn the big bux; to make the hard unpopular decisions and _make_ them stick no matter what.
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### Author:  [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2024, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6006 "2024-04-24T02:42:47Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#):
>
> But based on the duration of the ongoing delays I suspect they were approaching the end of their legal duty day. It can be surprisingly tiring dealing with all this stupidity and so now they’re going to load up the third airplane, do all the prep _again_, and push off the gate with only a handful of minutes until they run out of duty day, then face another 6 or 8 hours of droning across the ocean to the destination? I don’t think so.
If tight duty time was a factor, I’m definitely with the pilot on that decision. I’ve been in that situation, and it just brimming with opportunities for problems.
When you _can_ take off, but it has to be in the _next 12 minutes_ or whatever. that’s asking for trouble. Even with normally cautious-by-nature pilots, there is great temptation to rush or defer completing some tasks you’d normally do before pushing from the gate. It’s really hard to be the guy who pulls the plug, but good for them for doing it, if that’s what happened here.
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### Author:  [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2024, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6007 "2024-04-24T05:58:04Z")
Here is a video of the Douglas crash [the flight path starts at the top right]:
[https://v.redd.it/70u4qjd85cwc1](https://v.redd.it/70u4qjd85cwc1)
Something different: precision helicopter flying:
> **[Military helicopters collide in Malaysia during training session](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCoDMUBXKQY%2F)**
>
> Two Malaysian military helicopters collided and crashed during a training session on Tuesday, killing all 10 crew onboard, the country's rescue agency said."...
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### Author:  [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2024, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6008 "2024-04-24T12:41:45Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#):
>
> When you _can_ take off, but it has to be in the _next 12 minutes_ or whatever. that’s asking for trouble.
This was exactly one of the direct causes of the Tenerife disaster.
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2024, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6009 "2024-04-24T17:11:50Z")
On a lighter (and more heartwarming) note: [https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/24/travel/pilot-proposes-to-flight-attendant-scli-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/24/travel/pilot-proposes-to-flight-attendant-scli-intl/index.html)
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### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2024, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6010 "2024-04-24T17:54:02Z")
> **[Former Boeing Manager Says Workers Mishandled Parts to Meet Deadlines](https://news.yahoo.com/former-boeing-manager-says-workers-123116294.html)**
>
> EVERETT, Wash. — Two framed documents from a long career at Boeing hang side by side in Merle Meyers’ home: A certificate from 2022 that thanks him for three decades of service. And a letter he received months later reprimanding him for his...
> [@](#):
>
> In one investigation from 2015, Meyers found that workers had used an unauthorized form to recover scrapped parts, such as landing-gear axles, at least 23 times over 15 years, according to email correspondence. Components are usually scrapped because they are substandard or defective, but workers in several cases said the parts had been removed mistakenly, an explanation that Meyers said was hard to believe. The movement of parts is generally highly documented and regulated to ensure quality and safety.
This all seems bad.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2024, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6011 "2024-04-25T22:51:07Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#):
>
> On a lighter (and more heartwarming) note: [https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/24/travel/pilot-proposes-to-flight-attendant-scli-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/24/travel/pilot-proposes-to-flight-attendant-scli-intl/index.html)
in the 50’s they would have said she landed a pilot.
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [April 26, 2024, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6012 "2024-04-26T14:10:28Z")
Indeed.
Florida Man is an idjit yet again:
> **[Florida man arrested for allegedly pointing lasers at passenger aircraft at...](https://www.aol.com/news/florida-man-arrested-allegedly-pointing-035504412.html)**
>
> A Florida man was arrested after he allegedly pointed a laser at a Jet Blue plane that was landing at Tampa International Airport, according to police.
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### Author:  [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)
#### Post date: [April 26, 2024, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6013 "2024-04-26T20:01:11Z")
> **[Delta plane's emergency slide falls off during flight](https://abcnews.go.com/US/delta-planes-emergency-slide-falls-off-flight/story?id=109701348)**
>
> An emergency slide separated from a Delta plane not long after takeoff from New York City, forcing the pilots to return to the airport, officials said.
It’s always ironic when safety equipment becomes a hazard. I hope nobody got hurt.
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### Author:  [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)
#### Post date: [April 26, 2024, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6014 "2024-04-26T23:41:06Z")
Wow, ABC News didn’t spin the story as “Yet another problem with a Boeing plane.”
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### Author:  [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)
#### Post date: [April 27, 2024, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6015 "2024-04-27T00:58:32Z")
Aren’t the emergency slides generally kept inside the plane until they’re needed? I’d want to know how this one got out.
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### Author:  [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)
#### Post date: [April 27, 2024, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6016 "2024-04-27T14:14:54Z")
Maybe it knew something the pilots didn’t about the condition of the plane…
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### Author:  [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)
#### Post date: [April 27, 2024, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6017 "2024-04-27T15:56:20Z")
On larger planes they are often in a compartment under the doors that opens to the outside. I’ve never looked at the design itself, but they would have an actuator that would open that compartment door and deploy the raft that is actuated from somewhere near the passenger or emergency door handle.
Here’s an article that shows a photo of one; [Passenger opens exit door during flight in South Korea | PBS NewsHour](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/passenger-opens-exit-door-during-flight-in-south-korea)
The requirement to have a slide kicks in for planes where the bottom of the door is greater than 6’ off the ground so smaller planes (needing a raft for over water operations) generally just have rafts stowed in the cabin that can be carried to the exit. It’s a lot less mechanically complex. It’s why the Global 7500 door sill is exactly at 6’ at it’s design weight (obviously varies if full/empty of fuel etc).
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### Author:  [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)
#### Post date: [April 27, 2024, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6018 "2024-04-27T17:15:12Z")
The ones I’ve seen are stored in the bottom of the door. I think I’ve seen flight attendants attach the top of a slide into the floor of the plane, so when the door is opened that pulls on the slide and triggers it to deploy.
I’m not surprised that there are alternate designs, though. I’m curious what sort was on the plane that had the problem.
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2024, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6019 "2024-04-28T21:57:58Z")
The overwing exits on the B767 have slides that come out of the fuselage to sit facing aft leading off the wing’s trailing edge. Normally they would be triggered by opening the exit, but the slide itself is not internal to the aircraft or part of the exit.
The A320 has a similar design and I guess other aircraft with overwing exits would as well.
[ ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/200199460@N02/53683029292/)
Here’s a video of the slide deploying on a B767: [https://youtu.be/ErVmCEESpKg?si=e250\_d8EloKVz\_Sl](https://youtu.be/ErVmCEESpKg?si=e250_d8EloKVz_Sl)
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2024, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6020 "2024-04-30T14:31:26Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#):
>
> The ones I’ve seen are stored in the bottom of the door. I think I’ve seen flight attendants attach the top of a slide into the floor of the plane, so when the door is opened that pulls on the slide and triggers it to deploy.
That works great for a straight slide, even on a tall widebody.
But as @Richard_Pearse said, on big airplanes the slides needed to get across the wing and then down to the ground are far larger than could be packed into the interior face of a door. So they’re stored outside the cabin just under the door sill.
Overwing exits are a bit rare on widebody airplanes. So it’s definitely a minority solution. The tradeoff for the airline is that an overwing exit only ties one row of seats to a specific spot on the floor aligned with the exit. Whereas a set of four full-sized doors spaced along the side of the fuselage ends up creating fixed gaps in the seating which reduces the number of seats you can hold and forces the seat pitch to only certain values that fit well in the run length available between two doors.
When the difference between profit and loss on a 767-sized airplane is 4 or 5 passengers, It gets real important to layout the seats efficiently rather than leaving revenue behind on every flight for lack of those last 5 installed seats.
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### Author:  [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2024, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6021 "2024-04-30T16:21:57Z")
I wish I had one of these for a lawn ornament. Less than 20k each!
> **[US buys 81 Soviet-era combat aircraft from Russia's ally costing on average...](https://www.businessinsider.com/us-buys-81-soviet-fighter-jets-from-russian-ally-20k-2024-4)**
>
> The US bought 81 Soviet-era combat aircraft from Kazakhstan, the Kyiv Post reported.
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### Author:  [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2024, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6022 "2024-05-01T02:12:01Z")
Took a business trip today and briefly glanced at the safety card on the first plane (737 max 8).
I’ve been thinking about the detail that showed that people should get into the water and hold onto the edge of the wing or slide/raft like Jack, presumably to get out of the way of people still getting down it. I also smiled at the little stick figures just chilling, floating in the ocean, and one dude just standing alone way out on the wing.
You might promptly die of hypothermia, but at least you’ll float so we might spot your body later!
I’m going to be thinking about this for a while, there’s an absurd element to it that’s really bugging me. Naturally the airlines aren’t providing drysuits for all passengers, but saying “get in the water” seems odd!
I wish I had taken a photo as I can’t find it online right now.
Found one for a different plane! The art style is different which is probably contributing to how silly it seemed. Look at the little guy on the wing! He’s dry!
> **[Air Canada Airbus A319-100 Safety Card July 2016](https://theairchive.net/air-canada-a319-card/)**
>
> Explore the safety card of the Airbus A319-100 operated by Air Canada from July 2016.
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