# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 302
### Author:  [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2024, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6023 "2024-05-02T10:18:37Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#):
>
> Naturally the airlines aren’t providing drysuits for all passengers, but saying “get in the water” seems odd!
They’re getting in the water no matter what at that point. The safety card is just telling them to get in the part of the water that isn’t surrounded by a sinking aluminum tube.
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### Author:  [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2024, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6024 "2024-05-02T10:52:34Z")
Haven’t seen this posted here:
> **[Missing emergency slide that fell off Delta flight found — washed up in front...](https://nypost.com/2024/04/29/business/missing-emergency-slide-that-fell-off-delta-flight-found-washed-up-in-front-of-house-of-lawyer-whose-firm-is-suing-boeing/)**
>
> Jake Bissell-Linsk — a New York attorney whose firm filed a lawsuit against Boeing following the Alaska Airlines door blowout in January — told The Post he got a surprise on Sunday arou…
> [@](#):
>
> Jake Bissell-Linsk — a New York attorney whose firm filed a lawsuit against Boeing following the Alaska Airlines door blowout in January — told The Post he got a surprise on Sunday around noon when he looked out the window of his oceanfront home in Belle Harbor, Queens.
Good lord, the _Universe_ hates Boeing…
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### Author:  [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2024, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6025 "2024-05-02T13:03:43Z")
Wow, that’s like a scene from a cheesy movie.
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### Author:  [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2024, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6026 "2024-05-02T13:20:55Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#):
>
> > [@mnemosyne](#):
> >
> > Naturally the airlines aren’t providing drysuits for all passengers, but saying “get in the water” seems odd!
>
> They’re getting in the water no matter what at that point. The safety card is just telling them to get in the part of the water that isn’t surrounded by a sinking aluminum tube.
From the Joke thread: A plane is flying over the Mediterranean
A pilot’s voice comes on and says, A terrible thing has happened.
We’ve lost both engines and we’re gonna have to land in the Mediterranean.
The plane will stay afloat for a very short time and we’ll be able to open the door just long enough that everyone can get out.
We have to do this in an orderly fashion.
Everyone that can swim just go to the right wing and stand there.
Everyone who can’t swim just go to the left wing and just stand there.
Those of you on the right wing you’ll find a little island it’s in the direction of the Sun about two miles off, and as the plane goes under just swim in an orderly fashion out and you’ll be fine.
And for those of you on the left wing…
I want to thank you for flying Air Italia.
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### Author:  [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2024, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6027 "2024-05-02T13:24:36Z")
I prefer rafts that don’t immerse me in water, personally.
The planes are designed to float long enough to get everyone onto a raft (assuming a perfect, controlled ditching scenario).
My experience is with smaller planes; no slides, just rafts, but my understanding is these slides are also life rafts that are required to comply with [14 CFR 25.1415](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-C/part-25/subpart-F/subject-group-ECFR3f07132c2c2d01e/section-25.1415). I haven’t had time to dig deeper into these designs and methods of compliance though.
Hypothermia sets in really quickly in cold water, even if it’s well above freezing.
There is no apparent noncompliance to what I saw on the safety card; all pertinent regulations are being met. I’m not sure there’s many -
or any, really - alternatives to how it’s done on these big planes to get everyone out of the cabin.
Fortunately ditching is exceedingly rare. It’s not much different than dealing with a crash into freezing climates, or sweltering deserts - the aircraft cannot reasonably provide survival gear for all extremes. It’s more a case of being “curiously amused” than “appalled”.
And the little guy on the wing was funny.
I overthink things, can you tell?
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2024, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6028 "2024-05-02T14:00:33Z")
Occupational hazard I’d say. 😉
Staying completely dry is nice, but is unrealistic for most people in most rafts in most sea states. Especially if there’s any hurry to debark. Which there will be.
The first time a widebody ditches well out to sea the evac will be an epic shambles.
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2024, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6029 "2024-05-02T15:30:32Z")
Speaking of cheesy movie scenarios: [A whistleblower who accused a Boeing supplier of turning a blind eye to defects has died after a sudden illness: reports](https://www.aol.com/news/whistleblower-accused-boeing-supplier-turning-090942011.html)
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### Author:  [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)
#### Post date: [May 4, 2024, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6030 "2024-05-04T17:57:18Z")
> **[Dick Rutan Dies At 85 - AVweb](https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/dick-rutan-dies-at-85/)**
>
> Legendary pilot, educator and adventurer Dick Rutan died Friday according to a press release issued on behalf of the family. (full text follows). He was 85. Rutan, best known for the record-setting non-stop unrefueled circumnavigation he and Jenna...
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [May 4, 2024, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6031 "2024-05-04T18:43:10Z")
Dang.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2024, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6032 "2024-05-05T13:41:53Z")
I lived in the Antelope Valley at the time of the Voyager flight. I went to his brother’s Rutan Aircraft Factory for a sales presentation for the Long-EZ when RAF was just in a small hangar. I saw his brother and his brother’s then-girlfriend flying a kite in a park in Lancaster.
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### Author:  [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2024, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6033 "2024-05-05T13:50:53Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#):
>
> I saw his brother and his brother’s then-girlfriend flying a kite in a park in Lancaster
That is so cool. A little like, say, seeing Freddie Mercury sing happy birthday at a children’s party.
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### Author:  [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2024, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6034 "2024-05-05T13:53:29Z")
I met him and Jenna at the National Air and Space Museum (where I worked) when they presented Voyager (the round-the-world plane) to the museum. I got their autographs on a copy of the book they wrote about the flight.
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2024, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6035 "2024-05-06T18:26:58Z")
A great innovator and skilled aviator. May he rest in peace.
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### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2024, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6036 "2024-05-08T06:44:14Z")
> **[Boeing says workers skipped required tests on 787 but recorded work as completed](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/05/boeing-says-workers-skipped-required-tests-on-787-but-recorded-work-as-completed/)**
>
> FAA: Boeing apparently didn't confirm bonding "where the wings join the fuselage."
> [@](#):
>
> Boeing VP Scott Stocker, who leads the 787 Dreamliner program, described “misconduct” in an April 29 email to employees in South Carolina. Boeing provided a copy of the email to Ars.
>
> “After receiving the report, we quickly reviewed the matter and learned that several people had been violating Company policies by not performing a required test, but recording the work as having been completed,” Stocker wrote. “As you all know, we have zero tolerance for not following processes designed to ensure quality and safety. We promptly informed our regulator about what we learned and are taking swift and serious corrective action with multiple teammates.”
>
> Stocker’s email praised a Boeing employee, or “teammate” as he called him, for reporting the problem. “The teammate saw what appeared to be an irregularity in a required conformance test in wing body join,” Stocker wrote. “He raised it with his manager, who brought it to the attention of executive leadership. I wanted to personally thank and commend that teammate for doing the right thing. It’s critical that every one of us speak up when we see something that may not look right, or that needs attention.”
This new attitude and apparent openness is a positive change, but at what point will these Boeing executives be forced to confront the fact that the primary reason this shoddy work is happening is the undue pressure being placed on the workforce by cost-obsessed management combined with the systematic suppression and punishment of whistleblower reports?
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### Author:  [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2024, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6037 "2024-05-08T11:20:17Z")
Mentour Pilot has just dropped a couple of good videos about how Boeing’s corporate culture changed after the merger with MDC.
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym41Iz68j4s)
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2024, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6038 "2024-05-08T11:38:55Z")
> [@Cervaise](#):
>
> [Boeing says workers skipped required tests on 787 but recorded work as completed | Ars Technica](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/05/boeing-says-workers-skipped-required-tests-on-787-but-recorded-work-as-completed/)
It doesn’t get much worse than that. Are they going to have to ground all the 787’s to test the wing bonding?
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### Author:  [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2024, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6039 "2024-05-08T11:48:10Z")
They noted it wasn’t an immediate safety risk and from what I know of the subject matter, it likely isn’t. So they’ll issue a Service Bulletin within an amount of time agreed to with the FAA and/or as dictated by their (FAA approved) continuing airworthiness process and the SB will instruct the fleet as to how to access the affected area and what the recommend compliance time is to complete that. The FAA will issue an airworthiness directive to make incorporating the SB legally mandatory.
We’re talking about electrical bonding here, not any sort of structural issue. The biggest headache is likely how to access the zone, as there’s a good chance it’s an area that doesn’t really see the light of day after the aircraft is assembled.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2024, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6040 "2024-05-08T14:14:57Z")
In the '70s I used to hear jokes along the lines of ‘Never buy a car that was built on a Monday or a Friday.’ If it was built on Friday, the workers were in a hurry to start the weekend. If it was built on a Monday, the workers were hung over from the weekend. Either car would likely have flaws. The quality-control problems happening with the Boeings reminds me of that joke.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2024, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6041 "2024-05-09T16:38:29Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#):
>
> We’re talking about electrical bonding here
By “electrical bonding” do you mean maintaining an electrical ground between mating surfaces?
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### Author:  [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2024, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/6042 "2024-05-09T17:05:42Z")
Yep. It’s important but the plane won’t drop out of the sky or suffer a catastrophic failure from it. Standard assembly practice should generally amount to reliably passing resistance values, the issue here seems to be (I am guessing if course) that no one checked the values because they “know” it’ll be fine. If 1265 identical planes passed, the 1266th should too, right? That’s the complacency that leads to skipping tests like this.
There may be more to it; a zone affecting SFAR88 regulations on fuel tanks or something.
The checks must be done. Corrective action must be taken. But not all non-compliances are safety related, or if they are, there may be mitigating factors that lower the risk and therefore doesn’t require an immediate response/grounding/panic.
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