# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 369
### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2025, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7363 "2025-02-14T16:35:44Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#):
>
> Are trans-Atlantic flights really operated so close to the limit of their capability that a couple hundred pounds (at a guess) is just beyond what the plane can handle?
I’m sure that’s what the beancounters want. Roughly speaking, more weight == more revenue as long as it’s not non-paying dead weight like someone’s wheelchair.
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2025, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7364 "2025-02-14T17:30:31Z")
I suspect the issue here is the size and power rating of their chair batteries rather than the actual weight of anything. [speculation]Their Load Control for the outward flight were either not aware of the size of the batteries or made an error interpreting the rules, then Load Control for the return flight got it right. [/speculation]
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### Author:  [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2025, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7365 "2025-02-14T17:33:04Z")
Wouldn’t the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) apply here?
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### Author:  [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2025, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7366 "2025-02-14T17:41:32Z")
Cool.
I like how the piece starts with a cultural connection (surprising to some) between two cities: Dublin and Nashville.
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2025, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7367 "2025-02-14T17:43:04Z")
Dangerous Goods requirements would trump that. It’s impossible to comment further without knowing specifics of the batteries, but you can’t just take any battery on an aircraft. Batteries in mobility aids have maximum Wh ratings for carriage in an aircraft. Specialised volt hockey chairs might exceed these ratings (but I don’t know, because that information isn’t provided in the article).
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### Author:  [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2025, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7368 "2025-02-14T17:58:58Z")
> [@gnoitall](#):
>
> I’m sure that’s what the beancounters want. Roughly speaking, more weight == more revenue as long as it’s not non-paying dead weight like someone’s wheelchair.
More weight means burning more fuel during the flight, which means loading more fuel before takeoff, etc. But they didn’t load more fuel, they took the two women off the plane.
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#):
>
> Dangerous Goods requirements would trump that. It’s impossible to comment further without knowing specifics of the batteries, but you can’t just take any battery on an aircraft. Batteries in mobility aids have maximum Wh ratings for carriage in an aircraft. Specialised volt hockey chairs might exceed these ratings (but I don’t know, because that information isn’t provided in the article).
I don’t know that they travel in the same chairs that they play hockey in. From what I’ve seen of other para-sports, I would guess not. Although chairs for sports would probably be designed for light weight and short usage cycles. Maybe the batteries in their travel chairs exceed the allowable ratings.
I think the article says that the same airline flew them home the next day. Whatever the problem was got solved pretty quickly.
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### Author:  [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2025, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7369 "2025-02-14T19:03:41Z")
> [@PastTense](#):
>
> Wouldn’t the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) apply here?
IIRC, airlines are actually exempt from the ADA. There’s a different law, the Air Carrier Access Act, that covers airlines. I’m not sure what’s the differences are between the two laws.
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2025, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7370 "2025-02-14T19:26:41Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#):
>
> I don’t know that they travel in the same chairs that they play hockey in. From what I’ve seen of other para-sports, I would guess not. Although chairs for sports would probably be designed for light weight and short usage cycles. Maybe the batteries in their travel chairs exceed the allowable ratings.
Whether it’s their usual chairs or the sports chairs doesn’t really matter. Whichever they were travelling with (possibly both). It could be a weight thing I suppose, something as simple as having to book items over a certain limit and they didn’t know.
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### Author:  [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2025, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7371 "2025-02-14T21:26:47Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#):
>
> Dangerous Goods requirements would trump that. It’s impossible to comment further without knowing specifics of the batteries, but you can’t just take any battery on an aircraft. Batteries in mobility aids have maximum Wh ratings for carriage in an aircraft. Specialised volt hockey chairs might exceed these ratings (but I don’t know, because that information isn’t provided in the article).
probably relevant here: IIRC, the size-limit for LiPo Batteries is 100Wh - which is roughly what you’d expect in a hoverboard (that kids mobility toy) … a wheelchair will probably trump that 😉 …
but that should be neither a surprise for the wheelchair user nor the staff ( I assume an e-wheelchair should be a fairly “daily” event for an airline)
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2025, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7372 "2025-02-14T21:36:51Z")
The airline I fly for can take mobility aids with either two removable 160 Wh batteries or one removable 300 Wh battery. It happens fairly regularly. The specs for Volt Hockey chairs seem to have gruntier batteries than that (40Ah at presumably 24 Volts would be 960 Wh) but we don’t know if they were taking their personal chairs, if it was it a problem with their everyday chairs, or maybe it was just an unbooked oversized luggage issue that had nothing to do with the fact the luggage happened to be wheelchairs.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2025, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7373 "2025-02-15T01:21:43Z")
Are aircraft seats removed for the wheelchairs or are the chairs folded for storage?
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2025, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7374 "2025-02-15T03:05:18Z")
The chair goes in the hold and the batteries are removed and placed in the cabin. The NOTOC, which contains a list of any dangerous goods or other special load (pets in the hold for example), has relevant information about the batteries including their location in the cabin.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2025, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7375 "2025-02-15T03:59:14Z")
the NOTOC makes sense. Do the chairs fold up or are they taking up space in the baggage compartment and may get bumped for their bulky size. If that’s the case it’s not a weight issue, but a bulked out belly issue. The cargo holds are going to be built up ahead of time and not likely to have space.
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2025, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7376 "2025-02-15T04:53:39Z")
Depends on the chair. I haven’t heard of one being refused for weight or bulk but this is a different airline. The fact that their outbound flight was supposed to decline the chairs but didn’t suggests it’s not a physical handling issue but something rules based.
Just checked and Scandinavian Airlines do have a weight limit for mobility devices depending on the aircraft type. I guess they were just too heavy then.
> Weight and size limitations for mobility aids
>
> There are some limitations regarding size and weight of your mobility aid on different aircraft types.
>
> #### Airbus 321NX (To/from Canada and US)
>
> - Max. height 110 cm, width 60, length 154 cm
> - Max. weight (kg) per colli: 80 kg
> - Max. 2 per aircraft
>
> #### 319, 320, 32A, 32N, 320L
>
> - Max. height 110 cm, width 130, length 154 cm
> - Max. weight (kg) per colli: 250 kg
> - Max. 6 per aircraft
>
> #### A330 and A350
>
> - Max. height 158 cm, width 146, length 143 cm
> - Max. weight (kg) per colli: 250 kg
> - Max. 14 per aircraft
>
> #### 333 / 343 / 359
>
> - Max. size (cm): 153 x 115 x 163 cm
> - Max. weight (kg) per colli: 149 kg
>
> #### 321
>
> - Max. size (cm): 153 x 156 x 114 cm
> - Max. weight (kg) per colli: 149 kg
>
> #### B737
>
> - Max. height 84 cm, width 94, length 70 cm
> - Max. weight (kg) per colli: 250 kg
> - Max. 3 per aircraft
>
> #### 736, 73G, 73H, 73W, 738
>
> - Max. size (cm): 127 x 114 x 86 cm
> - Max. weight (kg) per colli: 149 kg
>
> #### AT7
>
> - Max. size (cm): 95 x 70 x 140 cm
> - Max. weight (kg) per colli: 200 kg
>
> #### ATR72
>
> - Max. size cm height 120, width 60, length 120 cm
> - Max. weight (kg) per colli: 80 kg
> - Max. 1 per aircraft
>
> #### CR9, AR8, DH4, 223
>
> - Max. size (cm): 180 x 85 x 65 cm
> - Max. weight (kg) per colli: 80 kg
>
> #### CRJ900/1000
>
> - Max. size (cm): height 65 cm, width 94, length 70 cm
> - Max. weight (kg) per colli: 80 kg
> - Max. 1 per aircraft
>
> #### E195
>
> - Max. size (cm): Height 66 cm, width 91, length 110 cm
> - Max. weight (kg) per colli: 80 kg
> - Max. 2 per aircraft
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2025, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7377 "2025-02-15T18:33:48Z")
Richard\_Pearse, thanks for the research. the 80 kg wt is pushing the max a ground handler would have to deal with loading a belly. Any weight above that is likely going in the cargo bellies. I don’t know how the batteries are handled. Maybe they’re lead-acid batteries that are mostly harmless but lithium batteries are a different matter.
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### Author:  [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2025, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7378 "2025-02-16T14:32:30Z")
The FAA has reverted the meaning of NOTAM back to the historical “Notice to Airmen” from “[Notice to Air Missions](https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/orders_notices/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentID/1043524#:~:text=Document%20Information&text=Effective%20immediately%2C%20the%20term%20Notice,to%20Airmen%20(NOTAM).%22)” because white men don’t like to think that women, trans, or non-binary people exist.
MuSt MenTiOn PeNiSeS aT AlL TiMeS tO DiSpLaY MasCuLiNiTy.
Losers.
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### Author:  [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2025, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7379 "2025-02-16T23:40:39Z")
Super Bowl [Shootdown](https://realrawnews.com/2025/02/military-shoots-down-suspicious-plane-flying-toward-trump-and-superbowl/)?
I just heard about it from someone I know but this is the _only_ article I’m seeing on Google about it. I’ve never heard of this site before? Anyone know of them; are they legit or more like World Weekly News?
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [February 17, 2025, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7380 "2025-02-17T00:17:47Z")
> [@Spiderman](#):
>
> Anyone know of them; are they legit or more like World Weekly News?
The latter.
> **[Real Raw News](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Raw_News)**
>
> Real Raw News is an American fake news website created in April 2020. Many of its published stories include misinformation about COVID-19 vaccines, fictional arrests and supposed executions of public figures.
> Real Raw News was created in April 2020 by a person operating under the pseudonym of "Michael Baxter". The website started publishing articles that December.
> In 2021, PolitiFact found that Baxter previously ran at least three other websites and associated YouTube channels that promoted ...
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### Author:  [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)
#### Post date: [February 17, 2025, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7381 "2025-02-17T00:26:07Z")
Then [nevermind](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjYoNL4g5Vg&t=5s).
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### Author:  [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)
#### Post date: [February 17, 2025, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7382 "2025-02-17T07:59:31Z")
It was just a model … and not close to the actual plane … but here’s:
> **[F-19 Stealth Fighter: The Most Questionable (and Beautiful) Aircraft of the...](https://theaviationist.com/2024/08/02/f-19-stealth-fighter/)**
>
> John Andrews and the F-19 Myth: Connecting the Dots of Stealth. The F-19 Stealth Fighter is a fictional aircraft, that became quite popular in the 1980s,
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