# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 389
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7763 "2025-04-22T02:49:25Z")
And unexpectedly this was an Airbus A330 and not a Boeing. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7764 "2025-04-22T03:00:02Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > Dead body was probably in the aisle seat. Having to step over and around the corpse to hit the bathroom **gets to be a real drag** after the second or third time… - You’re not supposed to take it with you. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7765 "2025-04-22T15:31:56Z")
Honest, Ms. Flight Attendant, I thought that was the hall pass! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2025, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7766 "2025-04-23T18:36:41Z")
Some cool aviation-themed ties!: > **[Vintage Planes Navy Blue Tie | Transportation Neckties | Alynn](https://www.alynn.com/v/a/alynn-novelty-vintage-us-warplanes-navy-blue-tie)** > > Shop for the Vintage U.S. Warplanes, a Navy Blue Silk Tie by Alynn. Fast shipping > **[Aircraft Navy Blue Silk Tie | Transportation Neckties | Alynn](https://www.alynn.com/v/a/alynn-novelty-aviation-navy-blue-tie)** > > Shop for the Aviation, a Navy Blue Silk Tie by Alynn. Fast shipping > **[Fighter Jets Navy Blue Tie | Transportation Neckties | Alynn](https://www.alynn.com/v/a/alynn-novelty-american-fighter-jets-navy-blue-tie)** > > Shop for the American Fighter Jets, a Navy Blue Silk Tie by Alynn. Fast shipping > **[WW2 Fighters Red Silk Tie | Transportation Neckties | Alynn](https://www.alynn.com/v/a/alynn-novelty-ww-ii-fighters-red-tie)** > > Shop for the WWII Fighter Planes, a Red Silk Tie by Alynn. Fast shipping ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7767 "2025-04-24T21:50:00Z")
> **[Rob Holland: Pilot Reportedly Involved In Langley Air Force Base Plane Crash...](https://www.timesnownews.com/world/us/us-news/rob-holland-pilot-reportedly-involved-in-langley-air-force-base-plane-crash-in-hampton-virginia-article-151489253)** > > Pilot Rob Holland was reportedly involved in a plane crash Thursday near Langley Air Force Base in Hampton, Virginia. The MX Aircraft MXS crashed close to the base, prompting an NTSB investigation. However, officials have not confirmed whether the... I knew Rob fairly well. He trained me in aerobatics and we kept in touch sporadically over the years. As close to a “natural” as I’ve ever seen. Incredibly skillful pilot and an excellent instructor. For years whenever there was an airshow crash I would think, “Please don’t be Rob… Please don’t be Rob…” Well, today’s the day. Goddammit. RIP, my friend. I’m honored to have your signature in my logbook. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7768 "2025-04-25T00:02:03Z")
Damn. Sorry to hear that. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7769 "2025-04-25T02:39:54Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > As close to a “natural” as I’ve ever seen. Incredibly skillful pilot and an excellent instructor. What plane did he instruct you in? ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7770 "2025-04-25T11:50:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What plane did he instruct you in? Before he was a full time air show pilot, Rob had a flight school in Nashua, NH specializing in aerobatics. He taught a week-long course in a Super Decathlon, gave you a tail wheel endorsement and even let you solo it afterward. I was lucky to work with him. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7771 "2025-04-25T12:49:08Z")
There are is some initial reports that the wing separated on Rob Holland’s custom made experimental aircraft and he was too low to parachute out. > **[Initial Report: Witnesses say Wing Came Off](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn4yjFACBcs%2F)** > > The Aviation community is reeling today with the crash of beloved aerobatic pilot Rob Holland in Virginia at the Langley Air Force Base as he prepared for th... It apparently happened once before to the same type aircraft: > **[Accident MXR Technologies MX2 N88MX, Sunday 16 August 2015](https://asn.flightsafety.org/wikibase/178764)** > > The aircraft of the South African pilot Nigel Hopkins crashed while training for the world championship. One of the plane's wings broke off during flight. According to the Pilot, the rig... ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7772 "2025-04-25T14:02:33Z")
Just watched the latest [Accident Case Study](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ_Rhy1X6PA). I’ve seen a few of these where an non-instrumented pilot flies from VFR to IFR. Suppose this happens, what should the pilot do? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7773 "2025-04-25T14:42:55Z")
Medevac helicopter crashes during training exercise, three injured. Witnesses say the blades may have clipped tree branches on takeoff. [https://fox2now.com/news/illinois/helicopter-training-crash-in-illinois-crews-on-scene-response/](https://fox2now.com/news/illinois/helicopter-training-crash-in-illinois-crews-on-scene-response/) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7774 "2025-04-25T14:54:55Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Damn. Sorry to hear that. As am I. My condolences, **LL**. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7775 "2025-04-25T14:54:57Z")
I’ve never seen this disclaimer in an article before - > [@KTVI](#): > > _All facts from this article were gathered by KTVI journalists. This article was converted into this format with assistance from artificial intelligence. It has been edited and approved by KTVI staff._ ---
**Author:** ![IkesAcolyte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ikesacolyte/32/19012_2.png) [@IkesAcolyte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IkesAcolyte)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7776 "2025-04-25T14:58:55Z")
The way I interpret this, they are saying the AI wrote the article with the facts they gathered. Atleast they’re honest… ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7777 "2025-04-25T17:48:04Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > There are is some initial reports that the wing separated on Rob Holland’s custom made experimental aircraft and he was too low to parachute out. That sort of failure seems more likely than pilot error. Rob would have been dead long ago if he had been careless. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7778 "2025-04-25T19:05:36Z")
Ouch. Sorry to hear about Holland. I’ve written before about I guy I used to fly with at the airline who’d led a 3-plane aerobatic team back in the 80s or 90s. He eventually quit that and went back to airlining full time. His comment was that _everybody_ scares themselves once in awhile. The trick is to recognize when you’ve scared yourself enough times. Anyone who stays in the biz long enough dies in their airplane. The only way to survive is to quit before the _n_+1th scare. For an _n_ that only you can judge. My other brush with aerobatic fame was attending 767 requal school with a guy who had been a Red Bull Air Race pilot. We had both flown the 767 before, him far more than me. So the school was a cakewalk & we did a lot of screwing around. Such fun. Anyhow, he had quit that Red Bull gig as it was slowly getting crazier and crazier out there as management wanted ever greater spectacles and new records every season. He’d scared himself enough. But … He also did a lot of aerobatics & high perf stuff on the side. Had gotten himself an L-39 jet and was trying to set up a jet racing league. Then the engine quit just after takeoff on an ordinary passenger demo ride and they pancaked in with about 90 degrees of bank and the fireball eventually slid to a stop alongside the runway. Both killed of course. He was smart, resourceful, super skilled, and a real natural. And a nice guy to boot; not snooty at all. He’s dead and I’m not. Sometimes skill is what gets you into trouble. Not by cockiness of the moment, but by something like losing sight of your total lifetime cumulative dose of risk. RIP both of you. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7779 "2025-04-25T22:13:05Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > Before he was a full time air show pilot, Rob had a flight school in Nashua, NH specializing in aerobatics. He taught a week-long course in a Super Decathlon, gave you a tail wheel endorsement and even let you solo it afterward. I was lucky to work with him. Nice, a 2-for. And from someone of his skill level. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7780 "2025-04-25T22:34:29Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > There are is some initial reports that the wing separated on Rob Holland’s custom made experimental aircraft and he was too low to parachute out. A couple of thoughts: - 2 aerobatic accidents with wing separation doesn’t inspire confidence in this plane. Maybe a grounding and inspection is in order. - Would a ballistic chute work for aerobatic planes? I know it wouldn’t help for some of the routines at near ground level but it might above 100 ft. I remember Sean Tucker saying that Bob Hoover advised him against some of his extremely low passes. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeysBrother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ab097/32.png) [@MonkeysBrother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeysBrother)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2025, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7781 "2025-04-26T06:22:48Z")
Here’s the accident report (as a pdf) for a previous wing loss accident in an MX2 back in 2015. Interesting read. Seems one of the support brackets that hold the engine mounts failed, the other three brackets then failed in overload, the engine departed the airframe, the sudden CG shift resulted in a pitch up that caused the wing to fail in overload. The pilot got out and parachuted to safety. > **[BEA2015-0491.en.pdf](https://bea.aero/fileadmin/uploads/tx_elydbrapports/BEA2015-0491.en.pdf)** > > 1121.59 KB ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2025, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/7782 "2025-04-26T15:29:27Z")
We’ve talked about ballistic chutes before. They’re not a panacea. The POHs for the lightplanes that have them suggest your success rate is far better if straight and level and unaccelerated and above 5000 AGL when you pull the handle. Which conditions describe zero percent of any aerobatic performance. Most structural failures result in the airplane tumbling at fairly high RPM. Which pretty well ensures entanglement between the fuselage and cable as the parachute is being fired away from the aircraft and is then inflating. Back in the development era for ejection seats, one of the things they tried first was an ejectable parachute that would pull then the pilot from the cockpit. That idea foundered on the entanglement problem during chute inflation. Hence the seat to get the seat-pilot unit far enough away from the airplane before ejecting the chute and risers. The other source of aerobatic performance crashes are bottoming out too low. By the time that’s obvious to the pilot, they’re very low and very close in time to impact. Probably not time to notice the mistake, make the decision, reach for, then pull the handle before the impact. Much less the several additional seconds it takes from handle pulled to full chute to fully decelerated airplane. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=388) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=390)