# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 407
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2025, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8123 "2025-07-20T22:16:39Z")
Watched KOSH arrivals – was even crazier earlier: [[Album] imgur.com ![](https://i.imgur.com/AXM4yox.png?fb "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/a/xfl8qPw) [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/xqc6j7UD2wM/maxresdefault.jpg "🔴OSHKOSH ARRIVALS LIVE! ✈️ Epic AirVenture 2025 Inbound Madness + LIVE ATC!") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqc6j7UD2wM) Brian ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2025, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8124 "2025-07-20T23:41:59Z")
A commercial jet doesn’t hit a B-52 > **[UPDATE: Pilot of commercial flight performs ‘aggressive maneuver’ to avoid...](https://www.kfyrtv.com/2025/07/20/pilot-delta-air-flight-performs-aggressive-maneuver-avoid-mid-air-collision-with-b-52-bomber/)** > > A Delta flight turned into a tense and quiet ride for passengers after pilots took evasive action to avoid a mid-air collision with a U.S. Air Force B-52 bomber. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8125 "2025-07-21T11:06:42Z")
Several loosely connected thoughts not forming an essay … Minot’s civilian field is right in town. The AFB is a few miles north of town. The runways are parallel to each other. This raises the possibility that the B-52 was mistakenly maneuvering visually to approach the civil field when they meant to be approaching their base. Picking out the wrong airport by eyeball and then approaching or even landing there has a long history in aviation. Separately, I don’t know the typical traffic pattern used at the base, but one very plausible path towards an approach to the base would take them over or just south of the town and hence near the approach path(s) to the civil field. I find that a bit unlikely for noise abatement reasons, but not impossible. As well, since the distance to the two runways would be quite different from that area, you’d expect the two jets to maybe be near each other horizontally, but well separated vertically. Unless the B-52 was unusually low and the E190 was unusually high. Those two were probably the only airplanes in the sky within 50 miles of Minot. And they _still_ found a way to interact. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8126 "2025-07-21T11:09:49Z")
Or possibly because of this: “We can confirm that a B-52 aircraft assigned to Minot AFB conducted a flyover of the North Dakota State Fair Friday evening," an Air Force spokesperson said to ABC News Sunday evening. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8127 "2025-07-21T13:32:51Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Separately, I don’t know the typical traffic pattern used at the base, but one very plausible path towards an approach to the base would take them over or just south of the town and hence near the approach path(s) to the civil field. I find that a bit unlikely for noise abatement reasons, but not impossible. B-52s have rather unusual landing gear, and I don’t think they flare in the traditional sense before touchdown. Is it possible that they would require a long, straight, stable approach, more so than most other aircraft? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8128 "2025-07-21T14:18:41Z")
Not really. The instrument approaches to bomber bases look just like any others. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8129 "2025-07-21T15:34:12Z")
Do military planes have TCAS? If I remember correctly there was some outcry decades ago over the fact that they didn’t, and some lobbying to get them to adopt it, but I do not recall if they ever actually did it. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8130 "2025-07-21T17:12:31Z")
Here’s CNN’s coverage: > **[Delta regional jet pilot apologizes to passengers for ‘aggressive maneuver’...](https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/20/us/delta-pilot-b-52-bomber-near-collision)** > > A pilot flying a Delta Air Lines regional jet on Friday apologized to his passengers after making a hard turn to avoid colliding with a US Air Force B-52 bomber, audio from the incident shows. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8131 "2025-07-21T19:19:48Z")
Training jet does hit a school. > **[Bangladesh crash: At least 19 dead after air force jet crashes into school](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c75rprqwr67o)** > > The air force says the F-7 jet experienced a mechanical fault after taking off for a training exercise in Dhaka. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8132 "2025-07-21T19:24:12Z")
In General Aviation (GA) news, [a Cessna 177 Cardinal made a forced landing in the water off of Mukilteo, WA](https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/plane-crashing-water-mukilteo). All three people survived. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8133 "2025-07-21T19:41:26Z")
Trying to glide to Paine Field, perhaps. Plenty of runway there, if they’d been able to make it ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8134 "2025-07-21T19:43:07Z")
I don’t recall an intercontinental passenger flight having to return to origin because they couldn’t get landing clearance at their intended destination. > **[Flight heads back to Paris after being denied landing clearance in Chicago](https://local12.com/news/nation-world/flight-af136-heads-back-to-paris-after-being-denied-landing-clearance-in-chicago-air-france-o-hare-airport-cincinnati-travel-headaches-nowhere-operation-reasoning-midflight-revert-course-charles-de-gaulle-radar-runway-26r-cruising-altitude-route-origin)** > > The airline said the decision to return to Paris was made for 'operational reasons.' Airline veterans, what’s your take on this? ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8135 "2025-07-21T19:56:27Z")
Under the current circumstances, maybe they just didn’t want to deal with Immigration. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8136 "2025-07-21T20:30:02Z")
Landing clearance in this case isn’t ATC. But rather ICE / TSA / DoJ / random Calvinball nonsense from the criminal in chief. Every sovereign country has the right to say No to a proposed entry by any ship or plane from another country. The central question is why did the USA make this decision and was it sound, or just more governmental vandalism? A couple years ago we would not have needed to include that last joker in our possibility deck. Nowadays it often seems like the goverment is _the_ Joker, not mere jokers. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8137 "2025-07-21T20:42:30Z")
Looks that way: > Mukilteo police say the plane lost power with the pilot communicating with the tower at Paine Field that they needed to make an emergency landing. I took the Ferry from (and to) Mukilteo as part of self supported bicycle tour of Whidbey island. Brian ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8138 "2025-07-21T20:45:14Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Trying to glide to Paine Field, perhaps. Per a different article: > Communicating with air traffic control at Paine Field, the pilot said they wouldn’t be able to make it to the airport and had to make an emergency landing. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8139 "2025-07-21T20:58:23Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The central question is why did the USA make this decision and was it sound, or just more governmental vandalism? According to people on another board, this was due to a bureaucratic SNAFU in which Air France forgot to add this particular plane to their US operating certificate or something like that. I don’t know if that would normally constitute a reason to deny them entry, or if this was the current administration being nitpicky and denying them entry due to what seems to me to amount to a minor paperwork error. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8140 "2025-07-21T21:08:40Z")
Ahh. I used to carry in my issue iPad a whole book of those letters from each country we served listing the entire roster of tail#s the host country regulators had approved. Lots of pettifogging detail, but the opposite is chaos. I would have expected that in normal times upon the discrepancy coming to light, the US would notify Air France HQ who’d immediately ask for dispensation which would be immediately granted without question. Now? Between crazy bureaucrats and scared bureaucrats, dispensations are probably hard to find. In an arbitrary authoritarian regime, common sense and trust are two very early casualties. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2025, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8141 "2025-07-22T00:33:00Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Training jet does hit a school. Worth pointing out the F-7 is a Chinese variant / knock-off / license built adaptation of the ancient Soviet MiG-21. F-7s were made from 1965 to the early 2010s. The Bangaldeshi ones were towards the end of the production run, delivered in the 1990s and later. But still it’s an ancient design. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2025, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8142 "2025-07-22T09:56:41Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > it’s an ancient design. Newer than the B-52, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=406) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=408)