# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 415
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8283 "2025-08-21T16:16:31Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Likewise, decent companies have a well established addiction treatment program. If you realize you have a problem, raise your hand and go get treated and (assuming success) continue your career unscathed. > **[About HIMS | HIMS](https://himsprogram.com/about-hims/)** > > ABOUT HIMS What is HIMS? HIMS is an occupational substance abuse treatment program, specific to pilots, that coordinates the identification, treatment, and return to work process for affected aviators. It is an industry-wide effort in which managers,... As I understand it, HIMS is very successful and has a much lower recidivism rate than similar programs. Maybe something to do with pilots being tenacious? Or more likely really just wanting their jobs back. But as mentioned, you have to confess and ask for help. Not after you’re caught. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8284 "2025-08-21T16:46:03Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > This is a fairly standard interview question too: You’re a first officer and you notice the captain having a drink and there isn’t enough time to be legal before the flight next morning. What do you do? Do you rat the guy out and end his career? First you might ask innocently, “Oh, has the schedule changed, sir?” Is that part of the Five Step Statement? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2025, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8285 "2025-08-22T06:29:38Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > refractory psychological problems Had to look that up: “Refractory, also known as treatment-resistant, describes _conditions that do not respond to at least two different medications_.” – UT Health Houston ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2025, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8286 "2025-08-22T16:21:50Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > As I understand it, HIMS is very successful… There’s a commercial on the radio for Hims for some online ED medicine. Not that I am interested in them but thanks for the testimonial. 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2025, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8287 "2025-08-24T01:40:05Z")
A male pilot who took Hims just before a flight might not fit under the control yoke. It’d sure give new meaning to the word “cockpit,” though. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2025, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8288 "2025-08-24T02:04:13Z")
Yah, and if they come close to stalling there is a stick shaker. So there’s that to look forward to. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2025, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8289 "2025-08-27T13:18:45Z")
Well, jeez, you can’t say he didn’t try. > **[F-35 pilot held 50-minute airborne conference call with engineers before...](https://www.cnn.com/2025/08/27/us/alaska-f-35-crash-accident-report-hnk-ml?iid=cnn_buildContentRecirc_end_recirc&recs_exp=most-read-article-end&tenant_id=popular.en)** > > A US Air Force F-35 pilot spent 50 minutes on an airborne conference call with Lockheed Martin engineers trying to solve a problem with his fighter jet before he ejected and the plane plunged to the ground in Alaska earlier this year, an accident... ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2025, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8290 "2025-08-27T13:26:46Z")
> It said if the conference call participants had referenced the 2024 maintenance newsletter, “they likely would have advised a planned full stop landing or a controlled ejection instead of a second touch-and-go” that eventually led to the conditions that caused the crash, the report said. IOW: ‘It’s _your_ fault for not reading the instructions!’ ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2025, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8291 "2025-08-27T13:31:47Z")
If you read the article, note how a faulty (as in inflexible) AI was mostly responsible. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8292 "2025-08-28T04:28:16Z")
I would think a bad landing with ejection is better than an airborne ejection and a $200M lawn dart. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8293 "2025-08-28T13:42:13Z")
The survival and not-crippled-for-life rate for ejections close to the ground is much worse than for controlled ejections at altitude. IME back in the day, if you got into a malfunction situation where ejection was high on the list of potential endpoints, then the official attitude was that the jet was already forfeit. So the choice was between destroyed jet AND _high_ likelihood of damaged or destroyed pilot VERSUS destroyed jet AND _low_er likelihood of damaged or destroyed pilot. Pretty obvious which way both the pilot and their chain of command will decide. With a nosegear hardover or partly deployed main gear, once you touch down the airplane could go nearly any direction and nearly instantly so. Including veering towards hangars and parked airplanes and … Better to write off one jet than risk ten jets and some buildings. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8294 "2025-08-28T13:56:50Z")
The bizjet I work with at the moment is very modern - computers are part of nearly everything and that sort of situation is my nightmare. Getting into a weird, in-between mode where the jet thinks one thing is happening, and it’s actually something else. Then you’re sitting there going, “Open the pod bay doors, HAL”, and possibly running out of options. A somewhat similar situation happened with an airliner a while back, but with a much better outcome: > **[A Matter of Millimeters: The story of Qantas flight 32](https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/a-matter-of-millimeters-the-story-of-qantas-flight-32-bdaa62dc98e7)** > > How a mistake of less than half a millimeter in a single part nearly brought down the world’s largest passenger aircraft. The airplane suffered damage from an uncontained engine failure resulting in system effects that couldn’t be completely understood. The pilots never really knew how the plane was going to react as they landed and tried to slow to a stop. Fortunately, it worked out. Not to say these sorts of system logic problems couldn’t happen in purely mechanical systems, but these days we have computers between the pilots and most moving parts. Not fun when the electronic brains stop cooperating. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8295 "2025-08-28T18:45:33Z")
An F-16 at a Polish air show: > **[Airshow Radom 28.08.2025 wypadek F16 f-16 crash](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu-DbPyaXfs%2F)** > > > **[Poland: F-16 Crashes During Radom Air Show Rehearsal; Pilot Killed | Video](https://www.timesnownews.com/world/europe/poland-f-16-fighter-jet-crashes-at-radom-air-show-no-word-on-pilot-video-article-152540918)** > > A Polish F-16 Tiger Demo jet crashed during rehearsals for the 2025 Radom Air Show in Sadków, killing the pilot instantly. The jet lost control during a high-speed maneuver and exploded on impact. The tragic incident was caught on video, and... ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8296 "2025-08-28T19:07:08Z")
May the pilot rest in peace. On a less tragic note: > **[Delta to pay $78.75 million to resolve fuel dump lawsuit | CNN Business](https://www.cnn.com/2025/08/27/business/delta-fuel-dump-lawsuit)** > > Delta Air Lines agreed to pay $78.75 million to resolve a class action lawsuit over a 2020 fuel dump that doused tens of thousands of properties, including homes and schools, in Los Angeles and Orange counties in California. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8297 "2025-08-28T19:08:50Z")
Looks fully under control until the pilot notices the ground is coming up more quickly than desired. Then he goes for a hard pull but it’s too late. It’d be interesting to see the 10 seconds before where the vids start. His G-loading before the hard pull doesn’t look like much. Perhaps an almost G-LOC and he’d eased off earlier in the recovery? Darn shame. But it didn’t hurt for long. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8298 "2025-08-28T19:58:16Z")
See the video at the top of this thread: > **[Reddit - The heart of the internet](https://www.reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/comments/1n2jxdh/f16_crash_during_radom_air_show_rehearsal_in/)** ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8299 "2025-08-28T21:10:54Z")
Since removed by the moderators there. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8300 "2025-08-28T21:46:00Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Better to write off one jet than risk ten jets and some buildings. I don’t disagree with anything you said except for this. Once the pilot ejects, the plane is an unknown unless there is a “lawn dart” button and they’re in a remote area. This was a job for Bob Hoover. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8301 "2025-08-28T21:56:23Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > An F-16 at a Polish air show: It’s amazing how often that seems to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2025, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8302 "2025-08-28T22:52:38Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s amazing how often that seems to happen. I saw it happen to an F/A-18 at an airshow at MCAS El Toro. The pilot attempted a loop, lost energy at the top, stalled (inverted, IIRC) and just didn’t have enough room to recover. His nose was pointed up, his afterburners were on, but there was that pesky downward momentum. The colonel flying (who I believe was of Polish descent, now that I think of it – Not that Poles are poor pilots; just look at their RAF squadron in WWII) sustained serious injuries, but I believe he flew again after a couple/few years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=414) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=416)