# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 418
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2025, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8343 "2025-09-10T22:48:30Z")
They should make a giant helicopter with the turbine blades themselves. What, you say that the rotor has no control authority and it lacks a tail rotor? Fine. Then make a big quadcopter out of them. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2025, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8344 "2025-09-10T22:57:58Z")
Even better if they can design the non-rotor part of the mega-quadcopter so it transforms into a tall pole and a rotating powerhead w generator. Otherwise there’s going to be quite a collection of rotorless quadcopters to be backhauled sitting around each windfarm. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2025, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8345 "2025-09-10T23:40:14Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Even better if they can design the non-rotor part of the mega-quadcopter so it transforms into a tall pole and a rotating powerhead w generator. They’ve done something [similar](https://imdb.com/title/tt0418279/) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2025, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8346 "2025-09-10T23:57:43Z")
Yeah. But look at the collateral damage. ---
**Author:** ![MacDoc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/macdoc/32/18696_2.png) [@MacDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacDoc)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8347 "2025-09-12T08:00:35Z")
[![](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTGp5mUF6qzZDybBIw1KaZOrUvvc2qgz8bcY0hqxaNGoj42TuoC) ](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTGp5mUF6qzZDybBIw1KaZOrUvvc2qgz8bcY0hqxaNGoj42TuoC) 24 seasons and it is very engaging. I recall some of the crashes. Decided I would have liked to have that as a career. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8348 "2025-09-12T11:36:11Z")
This isn’t news, but I learned something today about those wacky Soviet aircraft designers that y’all might enjoy learning about if you didn’t already know. The Soviet **[Antonov An-24 - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-24)** is substantially equivalent to the Western **[Fokker F27 Friendship - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fokker_F27_Friendship)** late 1950s turboprop regional airliner. Not a copy, but similar missions + similar tech → similar designs. Back in the day everybody struggled with making turboprops both powerful and long-lived. The West broke that code quite awhile before the Russians did. Also in that era many airplanes of both sides used a mix of turboprops (or recips) with auxiliary turbojets for improved takeoff performance. e.g. the US B-36, P-2, and a few others. The An-24 was no exception. They solved the underpowered & needs short takeoff problems by adding auxiliary turbojet. So far so ordinary. So how many and where did they put it/them? One. OK, one is apparently enough to do the job. But where? In the rear of the existing starboard turboprop engine nacelle. WTF?!? Every takeoff with that thing throttled up was done with significantly asymmetric thrust. Which would get rapidly worse if the portside engine quit. Nutty. I would not be surprised if the landing procedure called for starting the aux engine a few minutes before final approach and having it partly throttled up on final to be rapidly available for go-around thrust. At least under high / hot / heavy conditions. Also nutty. Over the years there have been a few wacky or experimental designs for asymmetric airframes. But deliberately building something with asymmetric power? That’s a new one on me. Anyone else know of any airplanes with asymmetric power? Mere prop torque / P-factor doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8349 "2025-09-12T13:46:07Z")
Not I. Never heard of most of these airports before: > **[From beaches to golf courses: The world’s most unusual airport runways | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/travel/airport-weird-runways-barra-beach-island-gibraltar)** > > Touching down on the sand. Swooping low over the ocean to land on an island. Waving at the golfers playing between runways. Not all airports are created equal. Here are 12 of the wildest airport landing strips. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8350 "2025-09-12T16:09:59Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Anyone else know of any airplanes with asymmetric power? Mere prop torque / P-factor doesn’t count. Not quite what you’re asking for, but in the late '60s a B-52 was used as a testbed for newer, larger engines. They took pff two onboard engines on one side and replaced them with the test engine, leading to the only 7-engined airplane I know of. Thrust may have still been balanced, if they wanted it to be. Come to think of it, didn’t early 747s have the ability to carry an extra engine on one wing? It wasn’t connect to fuel or throttles; just a way to transport an engine to a maintenance base. Must have looked weird, though. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8351 "2025-09-12T16:43:12Z")
There are other testbed jets for engine testing. Garrett had (has?) a 757 with a short pylon sticking out of its “forehead” to which bizjet-sized engines can be mounted. It replaced a similarly configured 707. It used to live at PHX. Might still. GE owns a 747 where they pull the regular #2 engine & hang whatever else is to be tested there in its place. Like engines for A350, 777, etc. Which are enormous compared to standard 747 engines. Pratt has something similar. Those are fun, but essentially one-off test articles. If you know of a pic of the 7-engine B-52, please share. I’ll search up mine when I’m on a PC not a phone. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8352 "2025-09-12T16:58:58Z")
> **[https://preview.redd.it/etjokzxj35441.jpg?auto=webp&s=e4fd25cac46da18aad695d...](https://preview.redd.it/etjokzxj35441.jpg?auto=webp&s=e4fd25cac46da18aad695dc837b37197dcf8fd2b)** > **[Reddit - The heart of the internet](https://www.reddit.com/r/WeirdWings/comments/e9jedx/one_of_the_only_7engine_planes_to_ever_exist_b52e/)** ---
**Author:** ![MacDoc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/macdoc/32/18696_2.png) [@MacDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacDoc)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8353 "2025-09-12T17:02:35Z")
Enjoying the **Aviation Disaster** series. One of the jaw droppers concerned a Scandavian crash that was after a long investigation it was determined to have been caused **directly from the substitution of bogus parts holding the tail on**. The jaw dropper was that the resulting shock waves in the airline industry discovered that **39% of parts in inventories** **were bogus including up to Airforce One.** Lots of arrests and new certification procedures resulted. It’s incredible that all four bolts holding the tail were found despite the crash being over water. The three bogus bolts were clearly damaged prior to the crash - the one bolt replaced in a Canadian maintenance was up to spec and undamaged and the recording of the vibration that ultimately caused the crash ceased for two weeks after the proper bolt was replaced. It then returned after time and got progressively worst up to the crash. Really good fascinating episode. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8354 "2025-09-12T20:45:55Z")
Great cite there to the 7-engine B-52. That’s a Pratt & Whitney JT-8D, the same basic engine as the 747-100 had. Which was the first of the high-ish bypass turbofan engines. By current standards it’s a very low-bypass turbofan. How times change. Garrett: Here are some cites to their 757 testbed: > **[Boeing 757 test-bed plane showcases Honeywell R&D capabilities in Dubai |...](https://www.thenationalnews.com/business/boeing-757-test-bed-plane-showcases-honeywell-r-d-capabilities-in-dubai-1.139514)** That pic shows the airplane parked at PHX on the north side where Garrett had (has?) a small factory & engineering center. I don’t know enough about bizjet engines to identify what that is. Here’s the same airplane flying around but with a turboprop stuck to its head: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/AraV2kvytIY/maxresdefault.jpg "Honeywell Flying Testbed 757 Takeoff and Flyby - EAA AirVenture Oshkosh 2018") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AraV2kvytIY) Pratt & Whitney: Here’s a neat article about the history of their engine testbeds. > **[Special performers - Skies Mag](https://skiesmag.com/features/special-performers/)** > > Skies visits the personnel and aircraft that support the development of Pratt & Whitney Canada’s turbine technology. And an article mostly about Embraer but with a closeup of Pratt’s 747 with a different engine type as #2 > **[Embraer Turns True Believer in Pratt’s GTF | AIN](https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/air-transport/2013-01-14/embraer-turns-true-believer-pratts-gtf)** > > Business, Air Transport, Defense & General Aviation News General Electric: One of their testbeds even has a wiki article. This was a 747-100. One pic shows the #2 engine replaced with a much more powerful one than stock, and another shows it with a much smaller engine, the CFM-56, the kind used on 737s & some A320-series jets. It’s interesting to note that although the CFM56 is intended for the much smaller 737, it’s not that much smaller in diameter than the stock 747-100 JT-8D engines from 30 years previously. Fans just keep getting bigger as the core that drives them gets ever more efficient and relatively more compact. > **[N747GE](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N747GE)** > > N747GE is a Boeing 747 aircraft that was used by General Electric Aircraft Engines as a testbed for several of the company's jet engines between 1992 and 2017, including the General Electric GE90 for the Boeing 777, at the time, the world's largest jet engine. > Before being purchased by General Electric, the aircraft was owned by Pan Am and registered N744PA. At Pan Am, the aircraft was named Clipper Star of the Union between 1970 and 1982 and Clipper Ocean Spray between 1982 and 1992. > The Boe... That testbed has been retired and replaced by a 747-400. Which has stock engines much larger & more powerful than the old 747-100’s. And in this article, we see a pic of those stock 747-400 engines being dwarfed by the latest & greatest GE9X which will power the 777X if FAA ever quits dragging its feet and lets it get certificated. > **[GE9X Takes Flight on 747 Testbed | AIN](https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/air-transport/2018-03-14/ge9x-takes-flight-747-testbed)** > > First flight from Victorville, California, lasts more than four hours Last but not least, Rolls Royce: Here’s their 5-engine 747 with a bizjet engine attached: > **[The multi-tasker that loves to be tested](https://www.rolls-royce.com/media/our-stories/discover/2024/business-aviation-rr-multi-tasker-that-loves-to-be-tested.aspx)** > > The multi-tasker that loves to be tested And a vid of a 4-engine version testing synthetic fuels with #2 replaced by an engine for A350s & 777s & such: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/4gSKbmODNxI/maxresdefault.jpg "Flying the Rolls Royce B747 Test Bed - An Experimental Flight with 100% SAF") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gSKbmODNxI) I hadn’t intended to launch off on a research project, but it’s raining outside and this is kinda fun. Enjoy! ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8355 "2025-09-13T00:14:17Z")
I more or less follow the development of _Flying Whales_ because the name just makes me so happy and it seems like a solid proposal for Northern operations, etc. But mostly the whales thing! ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8356 "2025-09-13T01:11:42Z")
I love the whimsy behind blimps in general and blimp-lifters fit that same mold. One of Goodyear’s is based \<10 miles from my house & I see it regularly. You can’t help but smile while looking at a blimp. But I’ll be damned if I can see how blimp-lifters would actually work in real world conditions. Remote locations and shit weather go together like PB & J or fish & chips. Doesn’t matter where you go, if the climate there was decent, there’d be roads and people and suburbs an’ shit. For everyone else, this is > **[FLYING WHALES Accueil](https://www.flying-whales.com/en/home/)** > > Les dirigeables FLYING WHALES, une solution de transport profondément innovante reposant sur un nouvel écosystème. As a separate matter, anything that can crash this gracefully deserves a place in the sky: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/_Fwj5ZsqAg8/maxresdefault.jpg "Airlander 10 crash (close-up & slow motion)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fwj5ZsqAg8) That accident was in 2016, 9 years ago. Here’s their website. It does not appear they’ve done much of anything since then except cast about for more money. > **[HAV](https://www.hybridairvehicles.com)** > > At Hybrid Air Vehicles we are redefining what aircraft can do. Airlander connects the unconnected and solves modern day aviation challenges. Explore the technology here. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8357 "2025-09-13T01:15:10Z")
I wish there were blimp races. Those would be fun. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8358 "2025-09-13T14:29:00Z")
Blimp [parades](https://www.blimpinfo.com/uncategorized/theres-a-blimp-parade-over-new-york-city/) are rare enough, but according to this CBS [article](https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/blimps-parade-up-hudson-river/), they did a race the year before. Gas balloons do distance races & hot air do precision competitions all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8359 "2025-09-13T14:30:45Z")
I’ve never heard of a blimp parade. I was imagining Reno-style blimp races, with the pylons. 😎 ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8360 "2025-09-13T14:37:45Z")
Blimps are mainly used for advertising. Propose the idea to 'em. Anything that gets more eyeballs for the advertisers is a net win for them. In ballooning, touching fabric is fine & known as a ‘kiss’ since both are soft there really can’t be any damage. In fact, we sometimes intentionally stand up ‘shoulder-to-shoulder’; especially at a glow. If blimps did that, it could even be a head to head race rather than a time trial that Reno (happening this weekend!) is; none of this _booooring_ watching them one-at-a-time stuff ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8361 "2025-09-13T14:39:06Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > it could even be a head to head race rather than a time trial Yes, that is exactly the point. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8362 "2025-09-13T17:08:43Z")
@Spiderman : Thanks for the blimp parade. I’ve lived in SoCal & SoFL and seeing a single blimp in the sky is always a treat, but a treat I’ve been privileged to enjoy a lot more than most folks around the country. I’ve never seen two in flight in person. And other than pix from WWII & previous, had never seen a pic of more than one. Reno Air Races??!?! I knew they shut down forever. I’m surprised to learn they’ve relocated to Roswell NM and are alive and well: > **[National Championship Air Races | Welcome to The World's Fastest Motorsport!](https://airrace.org/)** > > The National Championship Air Racing Association has been organizing the National Championship Air Races for over 60 years, promoting its storied traditions and pageantry. Hooray for that!! Although Roswell’s ability to host a large crowd is not nearly what Reno’s was. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=417) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=419)