# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 420
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2025, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8383 "2025-09-20T18:44:15Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > If any one of those airplanes gets late for whatever reason, when they return to the hub they cause up to 3 delays: whatever the airplane was going to fly next, whatever the pilots were going to fly next, and whatever the FAs were going to fly next. The implication appears to be that there are no backup planes lurking in a nearby hangar that can be readied in a several minutes’ notice to replace a late flight. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2025, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8384 "2025-09-20T19:19:58Z")
The odds of having a plane of the correct configuration PLUS a crew are yeah, pretty much nil. Maybe if you are Southwest you have another 737. My understanding is planes don’t go out of service unless they’re broken. Way too expensive. Plus, airlines don’t really have “hangers.” What you see at major hubs are service hangers, not storage. Maybe they have a plane and a crew that they could swap in from a later route that the delayed plane and crew could service, but that’s another can of worms vis a vis trickle on effects on scheduling. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2025, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8385 "2025-09-21T02:02:41Z")
Interesting note on the cyberattack. [From the BBC 9/20/25](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3drpgv33pxo) - The BBC understands that British Airways is operating as normal using a back-up system, but that most other airlines operating from Heathrow have been affected. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2025, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8386 "2025-09-21T06:12:02Z")
20-ish years ago I had to flly to the west coast. I live in Boston, but it was cheaper to fly from Providence. After takeoff, the slats wouldn’t retract, so we diverted to Boston. We walked off one plane, and right on to another. I vaguely remember it being a 727, on Delta. When did they stop flying those? Maybe it was longer ago than I thought. ETA: Might have been United. I remember listening to the cokpit radio on my headphones, which I think only United had on their entertainment systems. I knew we were diverting about 30 seconds before it was announced on the PA. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2025, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8387 "2025-09-21T06:27:13Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I vaguely remember it being a 727, on Delta. When did they stop flying those? IIRC Delta was the last of the major airlines to retire their 727s, and their last 727 flight was in 2003. So a little over 20 years ago would be about right. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2025, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8388 "2025-09-21T15:57:05Z")
Roughly 1998-2000 was the end of the 727 for the US majors. Not disagreeing with @WildaBeast above, just adding context. Delta has always been (in)famous for running their airplanes older & longer than anyone else. So it does not surprise me to learn they kept a few a couple years after everybody else had parked them. A very, very few were still in freight service and called at MIA at the time I retired 2 years ago. Now? No clue. But for sure it’s an ever-dwindling number. There was an increment in noise regulation around 1995 that meant you had to either spend a lot of money to upgrade a worn out POS, or park them. The best “hush kits” available still meant they were massively noisy and made fuel economy even worse. My airline parked the last of ours in 1999. I was a 727 FO at the time and worked through that shrinkage. I was one of the last ~100 crewmembers (so last ~30 crews) before the end of the fleet. On another topic … At one time AA also had the “listen to the pilot radio on entertainment channel X” on at least some airplanes. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2025, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8389 "2025-09-21T16:04:46Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > At one time AA also had the “listen to the pilot radio on entertainment channel X” on at least some airplanes. IIRC, United did this on audio channel 9. I always listened and loved it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2025, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8390 "2025-09-21T17:55:42Z")
There are still a few 727’s flying cargo. It was a great plane when fuel was cheap but it has the fuel burn of a wide body. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2025, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8391 "2025-09-21T19:26:07Z")
Mexico’s federal police had one at Mexico City airport as of 2019; not sure if they finally traded it in. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2025, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8392 "2025-09-22T02:50:32Z")
I’m not sure how true that is in 2025. Amerijet was one of the last US 727 operators I interacted with, and per wiki, they parked their last 727 in 2018, 7 years ago. MIA is one of the chief interfaces between USA aviation & LatAm aviation. And African for that matter. If 727s will touch US soil, it’s a darn good bet they’ll do it in MIA. They had become rare to nonexistent well before I retired from there 2 years ago. Fleet shrinkage tends to be exponential at the end. Are there a couple still wandering around Africa? Maybe. Calling from overseas into the USA? Probably not but I’d prefer to see a cite proving me wrong. I’ll always have a soft spot for the Jurrasic Jet. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2025, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8393 "2025-09-23T13:42:10Z")
Checked Wikipedia and they say there are about 14 or so 727’s still flying, none of them commercially. Most are in S. America with a couple in the US doing cargo and one apparently (don’t know if it is still running) operating for a 'Zero-G" company. I know at least 1-2 are flown by Aerosucre, who are modestly famous for their air-raising takeoffs in them, at least on You Tube (here is one: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D87R6uTvPLc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D87R6uTvPLc) with some 737’s in the mix) Press on. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2025, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8394 "2025-09-23T16:32:05Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#): > > none of them commercially Nitpick: If the plane’s owners are getting paid for hauling cargo, then that counts as “commercial”. I assume what you meant is that none of them are doing passenger flights. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2025, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8395 "2025-09-23T16:36:09Z")
Indeed so and I sit corrected. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2025, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8396 "2025-09-23T17:26:17Z")
> [@Tride](#): > > …Plus, airlines don’t really have “hangers.”… But some do have hang_a_rs. 😉 Scroll down for several aviation-related stories here: > **[American Airlines ordered to pay $11 million to a passenger who had a stroke...](https://www.aol.com/american-airlines-ordered-pay-11-134738729.html)** > > Jesus Plasencia requires around-the-clock care after having a stroke on an American Airlines flight. Jurors found the crew didn't follow protocols. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2025, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8397 "2025-09-23T17:44:02Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > The implication appears to be that there are no backup planes lurking in a nearby hangar that can be readied in a several minutes’ notice to replace a late flight. Sorry for dealyed response; been busy. No, that doesn’t follow. At least not much. Airlines do generally start each workday with a few spare airplanes available at each hub. That number is carefully calibrated based on experience; it’s darn expensive to leave a productive asset idle for a just in case scenario. And that’s the key. They’re there to replace jets that break down during the day and can’t be repaired quickly enough to resume any semblance of the daily schedule. They’re not there to fill in for a fully functional airplane that’ll be 30 minutes late. From the time a decision is made to substitute a different airplane into the schedule until you can begin boarding it is generally about an hour, not “several minutes”. Having spare airplanes available to counteract chain-reaction delays also does nothing useful without spare pilots and FAs immediately available too. Which they generally don’t have. The entire system operates very economically when all is going smoothly to plan, plus/minus \<15 minute delays. Every perturbation to that plan increases costs, often significantly. And the more they meddle with the plan, the more likely they’ll trigger a bigger instability that grows into an operational crisis. As such, it’s far “safer” on a statistical basis to muddle through with a few flights a little late than engage in heroic measures trying to recover those few flights back to on-time. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2025, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8398 "2025-09-24T02:22:34Z")
_Don’t_ do this, folks: > **[Man charged with aiming laser pointer at Trump's helicopter](https://www.aol.com/news/man-charged-aiming-laser-pointer-201225046.html)** > > The incident happened Saturday night near the White House, and the suspect has been charged with aiming a laser pointer at an aircraft, a felony. ---
**Author:** ![MacDoc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/macdoc/32/18696_2.png) [@MacDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacDoc)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2025, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8399 "2025-09-24T02:27:54Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/HkiNzh9nxFo/maxresdefault.jpg "This WEIRD Aircraft RUINED Flying For Me?!") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkiNzh9nxFo) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2025, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8400 "2025-09-24T03:55:08Z")
Autogyros require a different license from helicopters. My certificate says ROTORCRAFT - HELICOPTER. To fly an autogyro, you need a ROTORCRAFT - GYROPLANE rating. I haven’t watched the entire video yet, but I’ll point this out. If the engine in a helicopter fails, the rotor system is disengaged from the engine, and the pilot enters autorotation. Since a gyrocopter’s (autogyro’s) rotor is _always_ unpowered, it is _always_ in autorotation. EDIT: And I see that last point is made about three and a half minutes in. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2025, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8401 "2025-09-24T13:23:01Z")
What was the old expression about gyroplanes? They combine the hovering ability of an airplane with the speed and simplicity of a helicopter. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2025, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/8402 "2025-09-24T21:24:45Z")
And some horrific corners in their envelope that make mast bumping seem like a just dandy afternoon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=419) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=421)