# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 462
**Author:** ![MacDoc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/macdoc/32/18696_2.png) [@MacDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacDoc)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2026, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9223 "2026-01-13T20:35:49Z")
copy from another thread > [@How expensive is your hobby?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-expensive-is-your-hobby/1026139/68): > > My principal hobby is soaring: flying sailplanes (aka gliders - which despite the name are distinct from hang gliders). This definitely ranks as expensive: a decent glider can cost over $100k (but they tend to hold their value well). An aerotow launch (typically one per day for an experienced pilot) is ~$65. Joining a sailplane club is likely the least cost entry into flying. My solo licence cost about $3k Cdn including 40 tows, 40 plane rentals ( various ) club membership, insurance and instructions. You do have some club duties but I joined early August and was solo in Sept and still a few weeks of good flying into October. > **[Learn to Fly Gliders | SOSA Gliding Club](https://www.sosaglidingclub.com/)** > > SOSA is Canada's premier gliding club with the largest and most modern training fleet and over 150 members. Located one hour from Downtown Toronto, Ontario we offer both beginner and advanced training programs as well as introductory experience... Now prices are up but still the least cost to a formal pilots licence that can easily transform to power ( for much much greater cost ). IF you decide to expand beyond club flights then the costs can get much higher but even clubs can arrange wave soaring adventures. > **[Cowley National Soaring Site](http://soaring.ab.ca/cowley)** > **[Invermere Soaring Centre | Glider Rides in the Canadian Rockies](https://www.canadianrockiessoaring.com/)** > > The premier commercial gliding and soaring centre in the Canadian Rockies. Book your mountain adventure today. I think the record for height for a sailplane is some 76,000 feet …yeah you read that right. > **[The Perlan Project](https://perlanproject.org/)** > > The Perlan Project is an internationally celebrated, world record setting climate and aerospace research project. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2026, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9224 "2026-01-14T01:58:04Z")
What sections have you flown in? First class Business class Economy Plus Economy [Luggage](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/worker-trapped-in-baggage-hold-9.7042447) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2026, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9225 "2026-01-14T04:05:04Z")
There is no privacy in the bathroom in Luggage. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2026, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9226 "2026-01-14T11:57:04Z")
On the other hand, there’s lots of fresh underwear if you need it. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2026, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9227 "2026-01-14T12:38:46Z")
And possibly lots of legroom ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2026, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9228 "2026-01-14T14:16:47Z")
only if you get a suitcase on the outbound leg 😟 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2026, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9229 "2026-01-14T14:46:25Z")
You’ve got hours in there with nothing to do but pick through looking for your preferred size, gender, and state of cleanliness. Maybe live a little and try something different for a change? 🤪 ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2026, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9230 "2026-01-14T15:03:51Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Maybe live a little and try something different for a change? So something different than my usual (gold lamé) thongs? 😘 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2026, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9231 "2026-01-14T16:57:26Z")
Who am I to question a superhero’s choice of costuming? ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2026, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9232 "2026-01-14T17:04:16Z")
Unlike those idjits Batman & Superman, I at least know to put my underwear on _under_ my costume. 🤦‍♂️ ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2026, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9233 "2026-01-14T23:24:27Z")
It was noted here that Greg Biffle and his family were killed in a plane crash last month. This left an empty house so: > **[NASCAR driver Greg Biffle's North Carolina home burglarized weeks after plane...](https://apnews.com/article/north-carolina-racing-home-burglary-crash-763afb03e3e6a22229b5bc2775017ecd)** > > Sheriff's deputies are investigating an alleged break-in at the North Carolina home of retired NASCAR driver Greg Biffle, who died last month in a plane crash along with six others. Apparently the burglars got $30,000 in cash and other stuff. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2026, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9234 "2026-01-14T23:46:31Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > A UPS MD-11 outbound for Honolulu just crashed at the UPS Worldport near Louisville. There is an NTSB report out. AP summary: > The NTSB said Wednesday that **Boeing had documented in 2011 there were four previous failures of a part that helps secure the MD-11’s engines to the wings on three different planes, but at that point the plane manufacturer “determined it would not result in a safety of flight condition.”** These planes were actually built by McDonnell Douglas, which was later bought by Boeing. > **[A part that broke on a UPS plane that crashed in Kentucky failed 4 times on...](https://apnews.com/article/ups-louisville-plane-crash-ntsb-md11-6d4cfff0c3937f847a3ac39809e31c11)** > > The National Transportation Safety Board says Boeing warned plane owners in 2011 about a flaw in the part that failed and contributed to the engine flying off a UPS plane before it crashed and killed 15 in November but at that point the plane... The NTSB report: > **[Preliminary%20Report%20DCA26MA024.pdf](https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Documents/Preliminary%20Report%20DCA26MA024.pdf)** > > 13.74 MB ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2026, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9235 "2026-01-15T00:27:39Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > You’ve got hours in there with nothing to do but pick through looking for your preferred size, gender, and state of cleanliness. Maybe live a little and try something different for a change? I heard about some clever thieves who got a very large suitcase, big enough for one of the thieves (presumably quite small and light) to fit inside. They’d get a ticket for a bus trip from the airport to a nearby town, and all the suitcases would be stashed in the underfloor cargo compartment. During the trip, the one in the suitcase would come out and search through the other luggage for valuables. At the end of the trip, his larger, stronger partner would pick up the suitcase again and carry him away. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2026, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9236 "2026-01-15T01:45:26Z")
The UPS MD-11 prelim report was released on Nov 20 and was cited upthread. What’s new is the AP news article about the lawsuit. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2026, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9237 "2026-01-15T01:49:05Z")
The prelim report on that one (Biffle’s Citation) is due in a few days. I’ll be anxious to read it once it shows up. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2026, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9238 "2026-01-15T12:08:02Z")
That was a little unfair of me. Sorry to come across as a jerk. Here’s an Aviation Week article that’ll be free for a week on the topic of NTSB’s latest release that @PastTense mentioned. > **[Boeing Warned Of MD-11 Part-Failure Risk In 2011, NTSB Finds | Aviation Week...](https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/safety-ops-regulation/boeing-warned-md-11-part-failure-risk-2011-ntsb-finds)** > > The part that failed and triggered the engine separation at the heart of the Nov. 4, 2025, crash of a UPS MD-11 was flagged for inspections by Boeing in 2011. And here’s the actual NTSB release: **[UPS 2976 - DCA26MA024 Investigative Update Jan 14 2026](https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Documents/DCA26MA024%20Investigative%20Update.pdf)**. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2026, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9239 "2026-01-15T15:20:34Z")
I ran across the AP article and asked AI (Perplexity)for the url of the report it referred to–and it gave me the wrong one. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2026, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9240 "2026-01-15T15:38:34Z")
Not your fault, but I think “Perplexity” pretty well describes the current state of AI. It’s an automated generator of perplexedness for humans. Maybe somebody should come up with one named “Magic 8-Ball”. Tagline: “This time _for sure_ it’ll work!” In other news, the FAA has released their **[Draft Transition Plan to Unleaded Aviation Gasoline – For Public Comment](https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/draft_docs/draft_unleaded_avgas_transition_plan)**. It’s a big document, but pages 20-24 or maybe -26 covers the meat and is fairly readable. There’s also an executive summary on pages 5-6 which they cleverly left out of their table of contents. Bottom line IMO: they’re assuming things can happen _much_ faster than they ever have in the long drawn-out saga of leaded avgas phaseout. Yes, we’re closer to the end of the beginning than we ever have been. But there’s a lot more beginning still ahead of us. And the beginning part is where all the scientific and engineering uncertainty lies. Good luck to them, but I see this plan sliding a good ways to the right, and that’s before we add any political silliness. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2026, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9241 "2026-01-15T15:44:55Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Maybe somebody should come up with one named “Magic 8-Ball”. Tagline: “This time _for sure_ it’ll work!” You may be thinking of Bullwinkle. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2026, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9242 "2026-01-15T15:46:47Z")
Yup. 'Zactly. “But that trick _never_ works!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=461) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=463)