# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 467
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2026, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9323 "2026-01-28T14:29:44Z")
Maybe Amazon Air will pick up those MD-11s. They’re probably for sale cheap. 🤪 Yes, I’m kidding; the entire type for all operators is probably going directly to the scrap heap. Not because they’re _that_ awful, but because the minimum cost to re-engineer far exceeds the fleets’ collective value. In a way, it’s not so different as the many early-gen jet airplanes grounded by increasing noise standards in the late 80s & through the 90s. Lotta reasonably safe reasonably cheap mileage left in them, but the cost to make them quieter exceeded their remaining revenue & residual value. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2026, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9324 "2026-01-28T14:54:19Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > Amazing to me that a flying machine, mothballed and sitting in the desert for four decades, can be brought back to flying condition. Well, they don’t just tow 'em out there and leave them. > [@](#): > > An aircraft going into storage undergoes the following treatments: > > - Ejection seat charges and classified hardware are removed. > - All aircraft are carefully washed with fresh water to remove environment residue and then allowed to dry. > - The fuel system is protected by draining it, refilling it with lightweight oil, running engines to coat fuel system plumbing and engines, and then draining it again. This leaves a protective oil film. > - The aircraft is sealed from dust, sunlight, and high temperatures. This is done using a variety of materials, including a high tech vinyl plastic compound that is sprayed on the aircraft. This compound is called Spraylat after its producer the Spraylat Corporation, and is applied in two coats, a black coat that seals the aircraft and a white coat that reflects the sun and helps to keep internal temperatures low. > - The plane is then towed by a tug to its designated “storage” position. From [309th Aerospace Maintenance and Regeneration Group - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/309th_Aerospace_Maintenance_and_Regeneration_Group#Storage_procedures) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2026, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9325 "2026-01-28T15:06:31Z")
And then all the rubber and all the electronics and all the delicate mechanical instruments are left to bake in the Tucson sun, with interior temperatures rising to 150 degrees. Day after day after day. For decades. The aluminum survives fine. Everything else is pretty rough. There’s a reason it took NASA 2 years to get one airplane flying again. And it wasn’t because they’re in great shape when they’re first towed out of their spot in the boneyard. Consider also that within reason they picked the best of the litter to revive. If they now need to pull another one out of storage, logically it will have to be one of the runners up from the last “beauty contest”. Plus it’ll be another 14 years older than the last one was when it was revived. The idea of the Boneyard as a source of war emergency materiel was being technologically obsoleted almost from the day it opened after WWII. For recently mothballed aircraft, it’s a good source of otherwise unavailable spare parts. But real quickly all the serviceable Gizmo X’s have been scavenged and then that entire fleet isn’t going anywhere until new Gizmo X’s can be reverse engineered and produced. After that it’s a great source of museum pieces. And cool Google maps overhead pix. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2026, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9326 "2026-01-28T16:45:28Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > And good riddance. It’s long been my feeling that DC-10s should have been permanently grounded and the MD-11 never built. From what I’ve read, there was enough of a market for a wide-body, tri-jet airliner, but not enough for two. McDonnell Douglas and Lockheed both tried to capture that market at the same time. Both got enough pre-orders to go ahead with their projects, but both companies were hurt when they wound up splitting the market. I’m trying to remember which airlines committed to each plane. I think it was Pan Am, TWA, and Eastern went with Lockheed, American, United, and Northwest with McDD. I seem to remember the airlines playing both manufacturers against one another to get features they wanted in the final designs. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2026, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9327 "2026-01-28T16:57:36Z")
Delta was the other major at the time. They chose the L-1011. The L-10 had a lot of schedule problems to first flight because Rolls Royce chose that moment to go bankrupt, leaving Lockheed with an engineless airliner for 2 years. Which eventually proved to be a fatal wound for the L-10 program and for Lockheed as an aircraft manufacturer. Which delays drove a bunch of demand into McDD’s waiting arms. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2026, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9328 "2026-01-28T17:08:11Z")
What with various mergers and such, I think Delta has flown the L-1011, DC-10, and 747. I don’t think many other airlines can say that. I never flew on a L-1011, and it looks pretty unlikely I ever will. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2026, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9329 "2026-01-28T19:25:55Z")
A BA A350-1000 lost a wheel last night after taking off from Las Vegas for London. Landed safely ahead of schedule. No injuries or damage reported. > **[Moment British Airways plane loses wheel during take-off in Las Vegas](https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/c04120yqdq5o?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=rss)** > > Dramatic footage shows wheel falling off a British Airways aircraft shortly after take-off from Harry Reid International airport. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2026, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9330 "2026-01-28T20:42:11Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > A BA A350-1000 lost a wheel last night after taking off from Las Vegas for London. Landed safely ahead of schedule. Of course they did; they were a couple hundred pounds lighter than planned. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2026, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9331 "2026-01-28T20:55:28Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > What with various mergers and such, I think Delta has flown the L-1011, DC-10, and 747. I don’t think many other airlines can say that. I believe Delta briefly had the MD-11 in it’s fleet as well. United has also flown the DC-10, L-1011, and 747 at various times (but not the MD-11 to my knowledge). ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2026, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9332 "2026-01-28T20:57:30Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Of course they did; they were a couple hundred pounds lighter than planned. That’s wheely funny! ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2026, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9333 "2026-01-28T22:59:03Z")
Last month, Samaritan’s Purse, the humanitarian relief organization, retired their DC-8 combi. This YouTuber got to travel along with them on its final flight. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/CsomgUBCfz0/maxresdefault.jpg "The LAST DOUGLAS DC-8 Flight - Good Bye Legend!") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsomgUBCfz0) I believe there are only 2 DC-8s still in active service in the world, one in the Congo and one in Peru, both freighters. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2026, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9334 "2026-01-28T23:20:28Z")
> [@WildaBeast](#): > > United has also flown the DC-10, L-1011, and 747 at various times (but not the MD-11 to my knowledge). I didn’t know United flew Tristars, but you’re right, got them when they bought out some of Pan Am’s Pacific operations. Sold them after only a couple years. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9335 "2026-01-29T03:36:28Z")
> [@WildaBeast](#): > > Last month, Samaritan’s Purse, the humanitarian relief organization, retired their DC-8 combi. This YouTuber got to travel along with them on its final flight. That looks like a DC8-73 series plane. I loaded a few them in my youth. I’m sad to see them go but time marches on. I didn’t see the traditional “chin scoops” in the nose of the plane. ---
**Author:** ![Humbagger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Humbagger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Humbagger)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9336 "2026-01-29T06:20:09Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > Landed safely ahead of schedule Quite far ahead of schedule…. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9337 "2026-01-29T15:07:59Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I didn’t see the traditional “chin scoops” in the nose of the plane. Damn but that vid is chopped up into micro cuts. Annoying to watch. The scoops are there, but the very shiny dark blue paint hides them well. I didn’t watch the whole vid, but the scoops are very briefly visible between 2:10 & 2:15. You’ll probably have to watch that bit 4 or 5 times to see them. But once seen they’re obvious. Once you’ve seen them, the left one is very slightly evident in the preview still image as a slight bulge in the chin. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2026, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9338 "2026-01-30T13:28:56Z")
A background question to an issue that’s got in the news these last few hours: Our favourite US President is threatening additional tariffs on Canada, and decertification of Canadian aircraft types, over claims that Canada maliciously refuses to certify certain Gulfstream types. What’s the technical and regulatory background on this Gulfstream issue? ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2026, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9339 "2026-01-30T13:37:01Z")
The Gulfstream aircraft in question aren’t even fully FAA certified yet - they are on a temporary FAA extension (due to expire this year IIRC) while they work out getting the systems that prevent fuel icing certified. Normally, Canadian certification follows FAA certification as a matter of rote. It’s political posturing and Trump BS. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2026, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9340 "2026-01-30T14:39:53Z")
New aviation related thread that might be of interest to the usual crew here: > [@Fixed wing vs rotary wing - Pilot’s position](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fixed-wing-vs-rotary-wing-pilot-s-position/1027186): > > I have only ever flown fixed wing aircraft. They are generally flown from the left hand seat. I have noticed that helicopters are generally flown from the right hand seat. Does anyone know the historical reason for this? ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2026, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9341 "2026-01-30T16:57:41Z")
Canada has an additional regulatory requirement related to cold weather (525.1301-1) which does not get a lot of leeway. Transport Canada spends a lot of internal effort on that review. Now, this is public information. If you want to sell the plane to a Canadian owner so it can be used in the country, your airworthiness professionals _know_ about this regulation and make sure it’s part of your certification plan and design requirements long before you actually build any parts for the plane. None of this is unusual whatsoever. Concurrent validation is difficult to pull off, but can be done. It’s likely that TCCA Validation could occur shortly after FAA Approval because the project is being worked on parallel at both agencies. I believe Gulfstream got same-day validation approval from either TCCA or EASA for the G800 but I could be misremembering. Trump’s post is just so incredibly stupid. Go on, piss off all those rich people bribing you who fly around in Bombardier business jets by grounding them. Nevermind the CRJ, Dash8, Bell helicopters, A220 (even the ones built in the USA are a Canadian type certificate), etc etc. Just fucking stupid. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2026, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9342 "2026-01-31T04:42:34Z")
> **[NASCAR's Greg Biffle wasn't flying his plane before crash that killed him and...](https://apnews.com/article/biffle-nascar-plane-crash-cause-north-carolina-15106ae84f272e2a805cf4b15b496ed2)** > > Federal safety officials have concluded that retired NASCAR driver Greg Biffle was not flying his jet when it crashed last month, killing him and six others. Report is at: [https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/202182/pdf](https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/202182/pdf) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=466) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=468)