# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 492
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2026, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9823 "2026-05-17T02:43:18Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The article kind of jumps back and forth between this being the last flight of _the_ last private 727 and this being the last flight of _one of_ the last private 727s. Probably one of those facts that gets real elusive when you try to pin it down. Yes, I noticed that when I was looking for a link. I’m guessing that a 727 needs a captain, so the last captain would be on the last flight. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2026, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9824 "2026-05-17T02:55:51Z")
So it’s a shorter 100 series 727 with the more powerful engines along with winglets and the newest avionics? That took some lovin (aviation speak for money). ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2026, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9825 "2026-05-17T11:14:57Z")
Yes. Doubtless an expensive set of mods. Those re-engining kits came out as the commercial 727s were hitting the noise wall in the early 1990s. There were a few varieties, but that one was the most successful. Put the more powerful slightly higher bypass -217 or -219 engines from an MD-80 on the outboards, leaving the center engine alone. There may have been a kit that replaced all three, but I’d never heard of it back then. The thrust boost alone helped the noise footprint by launching the aircraft earlier along the runway and more steeply into the sky. Plus the engines were inherently less noisy. Although still horrendous by 2026 standards. Meanwhile, the freight companies, ranging from leaders like FedEx & UPS to the whitetail dogs of the night all had need to update their 727 cockpits as new mandates for RVSM, RNAV, RNP, and the rest of the alphabet soup just kept coming. And the original 1960s electromechanical gauges became unmaintainable for lack of parts. So a few outfits sprung up that re-instrumented the 727s for all those users. As such, the very few private 727s didn’t need to pay for completely custom jobs, just order one out of an existing catalog from an existing supplier. Still spendy, but not _as_ spendy. The 757s and 767s out there today have long since undergone a similar cockpit upgrade. The original rig was CRT displays for ADI & navigation, plus engine displays. And round dials flanking the first two for altimeter, airspeed, etc. And true FMSs, but with very limited storage and computation. All that was becoming unmaintainable and noncompliant by the early 2000s. So the usual suppliers showed up to offer a replacement instrument suite more like that of a 737 NG. Two sorta-large screens side by side in front of each pilot, Primary Flight Display and Nav Display, plus two up the middle for engine instruments and status stuff. And much more capable FMSs. And a few ancillary knob & button changes to control the new displays and interface with the new FMSs. Again not cheap on a per-airplane basis but at least the non-recurring engineering and certification effort was spread over a fleet of a thousand or more. ---
**Author:** ![Raza](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raza/32/213_2.png) [@Raza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raza)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2026, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9826 "2026-05-17T17:38:00Z")
This TB-25N Mitchell has been flying over our house in north metro Atlanta once or twice a day for a few days. It has been departing KPDK/Dekalb-Peachtree airport, and passing over at about 3,300 feet. The low rumble is audible for at least a couple minutes incoming/outgoing. > **[North American Aviation B-25 Mitchell Registry - A Warbirds Resource Group Site](https://www.warbirdregistry.org/b25registry/b25-4335972.html)** > > The North American Aviation B-25 Mitchell registry follows the history of all B-25s that survived military service. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2026, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9827 "2026-05-17T19:53:07Z")
Report of an airshow accident today, not much detail yet: > **[Air show crash prompts Idaho Air Force base lockdown](https://abcnews.com/US/air-show-crash-prompts-idaho-air-force-base/story?id=133055114)** > > The incident occurred during the Gunfighter Skies Air Show, officials said. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2026, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9828 "2026-05-17T20:21:13Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > Report of an airshow accident today, not much detail yet: Two EA-18 Growlers. Aircrews punched out successfully and are OK. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2026, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9829 "2026-05-17T20:29:27Z")
Those are very expensive and irreplaceable aircraft from an already too-small fleet. Mishaps are always bad. Worse w dead people. But as non-fatal mishaps go, this was a doozy in terms of the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2026, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9830 "2026-05-17T21:00:59Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Those are very expensive and irreplaceable aircraft from an already too-small fleet. Only about $125 million each. > **[U.S. Clears Australia To Buy One EA-18G Growler To Replace Aircraft Damaged...](https://theaviationist.com/2021/10/01/australia-cleared-to-buy-one-ea-18g/)** > > The total for the new EA-18G Growler for the Royal Australian Air Force is estimated at 125 million USD. "The State Department has made a determination ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2026, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9831 "2026-05-17T21:28:53Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/WO7FvvP33r0/maxresdefault.jpg "Two EA-18 fighter jets crash in mid-air near Mountain Home, Idaho; Pilots safely ejected") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO7FvvP33r0) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2026, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9832 "2026-05-17T21:29:40Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Only about $125 million each. Maybe we can wait for a BOGO sale. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2026, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9833 "2026-05-17T21:45:39Z")
Preliminary report out: > The National Transportation Safety Board report said that during the flight, the pilot reported problems with the plane’s anti-icing system that protects onboard instruments. > > He later reported an instrument that measures airspeed had “iced up” and that he was using backup gauges. He was cleared to descend to 4,000 feet (1,200 meters) and told air controllers he wanted to get to a lower altitude to try to “warm back up.” > **[Plane carrying pickleball players to Texas tournament broke apart midair,...](https://apnews.com/article/texas-plane-crash-pickleball-players-f02d7cf48f244c8c71e3ddf4617b5ec5)** > > A preliminary federal investigation report has found that the small plane that crashed while carrying five people to a pickleball tournament near Austin, Texas, last month broke apart midair. [https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/202915/pdf](https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/202915/pdf) I can understand the plane crashing because the pilot was confused by the failure of these readings, but I don’t understand why it broke apart midair. Are the aircraft really that flimsy? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2026, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9834 "2026-05-17T22:02:00Z")
On my phone so no dissertation. See > **[Aircraft dynamic modes | Spiral divergence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_dynamic_modes#Spiral_divergence)** > > Spiraling is inherent. Most aircraft trimmed for straight-and-level flight, if flown stick-fixed, will eventually develop a tightening spiral-dive. If a spiral dive is entered unintentionally, the result can be fatal. > A spiral dive is not a spin; it starts, not with a stall or from torque, but with a random perturbation, increasing roll and airspeed. Without prompt intervention by the pilot this can lead to structural failure of the airframe, either as a result of excess aerodynamic loading or... And especially > **[Graveyard spiral](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graveyard_spiral)** > > In aviation, a graveyard spiral is a type of dangerous spiral dive entered into accidentally by a pilot who is not trained or not proficient in flying in instrument meteorological conditions (IMC). Other names for this phenomenon include suicide spiral, deadly spiral, death spiral and vicious spiral. > Graveyard spirals are most common at night or in poor weather conditions where no horizon exists to provide visual correction for misleading inner-ear cues. > Graveyard spirals are the result of sever... Bottom line is eventually the confused pilot gets going well above redline speed then pulls so many Gs they rip the wings off and the various big parts plummet or flutter to the ground. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2026, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9835 "2026-05-17T22:13:13Z")
I didn’t realize EA-18s were magnetic stacking toys. That was just weird. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2026, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9836 "2026-05-17T23:01:34Z")
That was indeed a really weird sequence. Upon further review several times … With various underwing stores that stick out ahead of the leading edge of the wing, I think the upper rear airplane managed to get wedged with it’s wing stores under the trailing edge of the lower forward airplane. They are _extremely_ fortunate the fuselages ended up misaligned enough that everyone had an unobstructed ejection path. That would not have been the way to bet at first. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2026, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9837 "2026-05-17T23:25:53Z")
It looked to me like one aircraft’s read fuselage got stuck between the other’s twin tails. But I only watched it twice. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2026, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9838 "2026-05-17T23:37:48Z")
What’s the mating call of the EA-18? Mayday Mayday Mayday … Eject Eject Eject! ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2026, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9839 "2026-05-17T23:51:58Z")
Funny! (I thought of dragonflies doin’ it, myself). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2026, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9840 "2026-05-18T01:51:16Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > The NYPost are getting soft in the online age. Was a time the headline would have been IDLE HANDS: LIMBS ON THE RUNWAY… David Letterman used to joke that the _Post_’s editorial policy required that the word “bludgeoned” be used in at least one headline per issue. > [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > > [@Spiderman](#): > > > > Deer are one of the deadliest wild animals in this country, not from bites or stings > > Have you ever had a deer sting? Ouch. That’ll learn ya!.. And don’t even get me started on those darn møøse bites! ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2026, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9841 "2026-05-18T03:16:33Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > What’s the mating call of the EA-18? > > Mayday Mayday Mayday … Eject Eject Eject! It certainly looked sexual. Complete with the climax of 4 pilots shooting out. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2026, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9842 "2026-05-18T03:53:52Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > It certainly looked sexual. Complete with the climax of 4 pilots shooting out. Two-click rule. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svLig831Q\_o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svLig831Q_o) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=491) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=493)