# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 497
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2026, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9923 "2026-06-04T21:24:25Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Ouch! > > Decent article with pix here: > [Lufthansa Boeing 787-9 "Herne" suffers nose gear collapse at Frankfurt Airport, crew members injured, Los Angeles flight cancelled - Aviation24.be](https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/lufthansa-group/lufthansa/boeing-787-9-herne-suffers-nose-gear-collapse-at-frankfurt-airport-los-angeles-flight-cancelled/) > None of that will buff out. > > This is probably the first significant structural damage to a 787 that wasn’t an immediate obvious total writeoff. Figuring out whether the fuselage structure or skin is damaged in a not-yet-visible way will be an “interesting” task for both Boeing & Lufthansa. What I wonder: Wouldn’t the load on the nose gear have been higher during the touchdown and taxiing when arriving on the last flight? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2026, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9924 "2026-06-04T22:16:44Z")
You’d sure expect so. But stuff can be cracked and not fail … yet. Then slowly, slowly something is stretching until it snaps. There’s also the possibility the gear or it’s attachment point didn’t structurally fail. But rather the gear was mistakenly commanded to retract & did so. Whether by a computer or human screwup. As a general matter it’s physically impractical to retract main gear with weight on them. The hydraulics simply aren’t powerful enough to overcome the aircraft weight & tire friction against the ground. Not so the nose gear. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2026, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9925 "2026-06-04T22:41:36Z")
The BA 787 was caused by the gear being cycled for maintenance with the safety pin that prevents actual retraction inserted in the wrong hole. It’s not something that would just happen spontaneously. > **[Accident Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner G-ZBJB, Friday 18 June 2021](https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/318989)** > > The nose landing gear of the British Airways Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner retracted while the aircraft was parked at Stand 583 at London Heathrow Airport (LHR/EGLL). The aircraft was on stand... ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2026, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9926 "2026-06-04T23:00:39Z")
Ouch! That’s been happening since retractable gear was invented. There’s no way to make something idiot-proof for a sufficiently determined idiot. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2026, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9927 "2026-06-05T01:39:22Z")
And the preliminary’s out on the Newark bread truck close yikes - > **[DCA26FA194%20Preliminary%20Report.pdf](https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Documents/DCA26FA194%20Preliminary%20Report.pdf)** > > 2.67 MB Man, they were really skimming the ground that last bit. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I always thought Harriers were cool. They did great work for the Brits in the Falklands: Yeah, this was one of those mad-but-brilliant things the Brits come up with, and of course the US Marines said, “wait, we could USE something like that!”. One of the final units was deployed here in PR, since the build-up to the Venezuela operation until early last week. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2026, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9928 "2026-06-05T06:47:03Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > The bad news - the front _did_ fall down go [boom](https://x.com/flightradar24/status/2062510866981924920?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E2062510866981924920%7Ctwgr%5E165a92f7fa769bcee60d4c53dd2cf848a3a4eacd%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnypost.com%2F2026%2F06%2F04%2Fworld-news%2Fla-bound-787-dreamliner-collapses-at-frankfurt-airport-gate-injuring-several-crew-members) Better than on a takeoff roll. Reminds me of an old Bill Cosby routine. > I was on a helicopter once when the rotor came off. I asked the pilot so what happens now? He said, "Well, nothing 'cause we’re still on the ground, but _next_ time… ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2026, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9929 "2026-06-05T13:59:54Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > And the preliminary’s out on the Newark bread truck close yikes - Aaah, so the plane hit the light pole & the light pole hit the truck. I didn’t realize that detail previously. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2026, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9930 "2026-06-05T16:49:07Z")
I’m not sure that detail was available in any of the early articles. I too first heard of it reading the NTSB report. The 767-400 is a fairly rare bird. Delta had (has?) some, and Continental (later UAL) and that’s about it. They are quite different from the other 767s and 757s. And big enough that I misidentified the type as a 777 from the YouTube vids derived from dashcams. It’s normal that airlines did or still do operate 757s and 767-200s & -300s with the same crews. At Delta I know the -400 crews were a separate group with separate training. DAL (or the feds overseeing DAL) thought the differences were too great to use one crew force for all. I’m frankly surprised to see UAL has them all together with one crew force. It’s clear the Captain was quite worried about the runway being long enough. And really eyeballed himself into a crack overcompensating for that. I suspect the fact it was a -400 and larger / heavier than he was used to was weighing on his mind. Of course being longer, that meant the ass end was riding a lot lower than the cockpit versus the 757 he was more used to. Even before he chose to really drag it in. Add getting slow, a bit of unplanned sink at the end, and maybe an unluckily timed lull in the headwinds (anti-gust), and suddenly he’s 55 feet low versus nominal. That’s more error than there’s room for. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2026, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9931 "2026-06-07T00:36:36Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > They’re in the air! > > They’re in the air for a little hop across the pond. - Big deal you say, that happens dozens of times every day. Yeah, but that’s in pressurized wide-bodies using Jet A for fuel in their jet engines. > > Nope, the guys I’m talking about are in an open basket & using Hydrogen for ~~fuel~~ lifting gas & the winds for propulsion. > > > Bert and his friends and fellow aeronauts Peter Cuneo and Alicia Hempleman-Adams will attempt to become the first balloonists to successfully cross the Atlantic Ocean in an open basket gas balloon using hydrogen for lift. Their flight from Presque Isle, ME to Europe is expected to take six days, during which > > the pilots will live in the open air in an aluminum frame basket smaller than most closets. There is no respite until they reach Europe – once over water their only place to land is in the open ocean. > > They launched from Presque Isle, ME a little after midnight, after waiting for the winds to die down. You can follow along with [live tracking](https://my.yb.tl/pertwood) > > > Atlantic Explorer [Website](https://atlantic-explorer.com/) At this point, a little after midnight UTC, they are NNNE of Paris & won’t land until tomorrow morning when they have light. The question is what country are they coming down in France, Belgium, Luxemburg, or possibly even Germany. Someone had an image from some ADS-B tracking app that showed all the planes on the route between N America & Europe; although the images were different sized to correspond to the plane type there was one in there that didn’t have wings & was round. Pretty wild to see that! ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2026, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9932 "2026-06-07T01:08:46Z")
I’ve seen the Goodyear blimp on FlightAware – looks like some folks have created custom icons (ex: AWACS) – can’t find the list of built in icons in a quick search. Brian ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2026, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9933 "2026-06-07T02:14:49Z")
They’re almost over Belgium now, by daylight they will at least be past France. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2026, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9934 "2026-06-07T02:46:32Z")
In Belgium about 4 miles ago ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2026, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9935 "2026-06-07T06:03:39Z")
Looks from the tracking like they have landed near Tandel in Luxembourg. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2026, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9936 "2026-06-07T11:24:38Z")
And yesterday it went supersonic for the first time. > **[NASA’s new supersonic plane notches key milestone](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/nasas-x-59-plane-goes-supersonic-for-the-first-time/)** > > This experimental plane, which reached supersonic speeds yesterday, is designed to travel faster than the speed of sound without creating bothersome sonic booms ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2026, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9937 "2026-06-09T19:39:42Z")
Very cool! Glad to read that, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2026, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9938 "2026-06-09T20:30:44Z")
Article direct from NASA, who won’t require you to subscribe to read. > **[NASA's X-59 Aircraft Flies Supersonic for First Time - NASA](https://www.nasa.gov/aeronautics/x-59-first-supersonic-flight/)** > > NASA’s experimental X-59 aircraft marked a major milestone Friday, June 5, when it flew faster than the ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2026, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9939 "2026-06-10T14:31:59Z")
What‘s the use case for a _small_, quiet, civilian supersonic plane? (I assume the military does not need quiet). ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2026, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9940 "2026-06-10T14:48:21Z")
It’s a test bed for new boom-reducing technologies. Assuming they learn what they hope, they mean to use those learnings to build much larger aircraft. [Obligatory “What is this, a center for ants?”](https://youtu.be/LQc8NDKcnpM?si=l0JsVPKqOtEvlcI9&t=73) ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2026, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9941 "2026-06-10T14:52:28Z")
> [@Mops](#): > > What‘s the use case for a _small_, quiet, civilian supersonic plane? (I assume the military does not need quiet). Surprisingly, there is a significant recession-proof market for luxury business jets, with a built in “my jet is better than yours” factor that drives continuous turnover. If all a company did was market quiet supersonic luxury jets to the 0.01%, that’s a fine business to be in. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2026, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/9942 "2026-06-10T14:53:29Z")
ETA: As @peccavi just said. The first use case is supersonic bizjets to speed executives & fatcats from here to there. Assuming that works, the next use case is supersonic RJ-sized jets to speed more ordinary folks. Supersonic 737s or 777s are aways farther into the future. But are not insane ideas from an engineering perspective, once we can manage the boom problem. Whether the public would be willing to pay the cost premium to get the speed premium is unknowable until the product is out there. Resistance from the greenery crowd is all but guaranteed; the only question is whether that will amount to a squeak or a roar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=496) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=498)