# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499 "2011-10-23T02:17:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 59
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/1161 "2018-01-02T01:41:49Z")
A little [behind-the-scenes](http://www.cnn.com/travel/article/air-canada-787-airplane-photo-shoot/) on formation flying/photo op of a 787. I do a lot of aerial photo/video but it’s not quite the same (speed) from a balloon. I’d bet we’d each like to trade platforms for a flight; I know I would. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/1162 "2018-01-02T05:03:06Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > A little [behind-the-scenes](http://www.cnn.com/travel/article/air-canada-787-airplane-photo-shoot/) on formation flying/photo op of a 787. > > I do a lot of aerial photo/video but it’s not quite the same (speed) from a balloon. I’d bet we’d each like to trade platforms for a flight; I know I would. Very cool - thanks! ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/1163 "2018-01-02T17:46:32Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > So, HDD’s have static ports! 😃 > > And I suppose that the concept of “density altitude” must apply too. Thus, one can fly up to 9,999 feet on a hot day and have a density altitude of much greater than 10,000 feet — a potential problem for even smart phones and tablets, as discussed above, and not just for laptops with HDD’s. So that sounds like possible trouble for GA pilots, with smart phones and tablets so popular in-flight now. I suppose laptops are less often used. They’re a bit awkward. > > How much do typical General Aviation pilots fly up there above 10,000 ft.? Don’t a lot of little GA airplanes top out around there anyway? > > This is why I wonder if it’s even more of a problem for gliders, since we like to fly as high as we can get, and on any good soaring day, we would routinely get well above 10,000 ft. Are there smart phones and tablets to be had that have service ceilings higher than that? > > (ETA: Do all those electrons tend to puff up at lower air pressures? 🙂 ) By FAR 10K is as high as you can go for an extended period without supplemental O2. So all the folks who don’t own O2 supplement gear treat that as their \*de facto \*service ceiling even if their airplane will go higher. At the same time, given the O2 limits, there’s not much need for things like training airplanes C-150, Cherokee 140, and newer replacements to be designed with enough wing & engine to get much above 10K. The chicken drives the egg and vice versa. That keeps the great volume of lightplane ops below 10K. At the same time there \*are \*a bunch of unpressurized light planes up in the low flight levels. C-210, Bonanza, Cirrus, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/1164 "2018-01-02T18:26:10Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > By FAR 10K is as high as you can go for an extended period without supplemental O2. 😕 The rule that I think I know is: O2 required for crew after 30 minutes above 12500 up to 14000 MSL, and at all times above 14000 (with additional requirements at higher flight levels). More lenient requirement for passengers, whose brains are considered non-essential equipment, I suppose. > [@FAR 14 CFR 91.211](#): > > (a)General. No person may operate a civil aircraft of U.S. registry - > > (1) At cabin pressure altitudes above 12,500 feet (MSL) up to and including 14,000 feet (MSL) unless the required minimum flight crew is provided with and uses supplemental oxygen for that part of the flight at those altitudes that is of more than 30 minutes duration; > > (2) At cabin pressure altitudes above 14,000 feet (MSL) unless the required minimum flight crew is provided with and uses supplemental oxygen during the entire flight time at those altitudes; and > > (3) At cabin pressure altitudes above 15,000 feet (MSL) unless each occupant of the aircraft is provided with supplemental oxygen. Is the above-quoted rule current? Is there another rule somewhere requiring O2 above 10000? Or is that simply considered a good idea? (Of course, if we’re expecting to fly our gliders that high, we have the mask or cannula on and the O2 running before we leave the ground. It would be quite awkward to have to put all that in place and get it working after we’re already flying.) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/1165 "2018-01-02T20:11:10Z")
I heard a strange sound as I got out of my car, coming back to the office with my lunch. I looked up to see a [Piaggio Avanti](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_P.180_Avanti) flying over. 🙂 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/1166 "2018-01-09T13:17:05Z")
As of today, this thread is [225](https://wtop.com/media-galleries/2018/01/today-in-history-jan-9/slide/1/) years in the making. Today is the anniversary of the first air voyage in America! (Orville & Wilbur weren’t even a glint in their _great_-grandparent’s eyes.) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/1167 "2018-01-09T15:03:52Z")
The story goes that Ben Franklin, when a skeptic said of the Montgolfier Brothers’ early ballooning, “What is it good for?”, replied, “What good is a newborn child?” ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/1168 "2018-01-09T17:26:22Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > As of today, this thread is [225](https://wtop.com/media-galleries/2018/01/today-in-history-jan-9/slide/1/) years in the making. Today is the anniversary of the first air voyage in America! > > (Orville & Wilbur weren’t even a glint in their _great_-grandparent’s eyes.) To celebrate the anniversary, this morning some local balloonists launched from the [Balloon Museum](http://www.balloonmuseum.com/) parking lot here in Albuquerque and were hoping to fly over the crest of the Sandia mountains- wind and weather permitting. I just called the museum and they said the balloonists did launch but they had not yet heard how the flight went. Our local ABC affiliate [KOAT TV](http://www.koat.com/) said they would have an update tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/1169 "2018-01-09T20:11:24Z")
Looks like the balloonists made it over the crest and landed near Moriarty NM, as reported by KOB TV- but I can’t find a link to their report. [Here is a link](http://krqe.com/2018/01/09/balloonist-celebrate-225th-anniversary-of-first-hot-air-balloon-flight-in-america/) to the report on KRQE TV, which doesn’t mention their landing. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/1170 "2018-01-10T03:41:18Z")
Deptford, NJ, (the landing site) had a program tonight, including a [glow](https://www.flickr.com/photos/74663312@N08/39606012271/). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/1171 "2018-01-31T15:45:39Z")
Two neckties I’m sure the gentlemen in this thread will appreciate: [http://www.alberene.com/prodinfo.asp?number=FXT210](http://www.alberene.com/prodinfo.asp?number=FXT210) [http://www.alberene.com/prodinfo.asp?number=JBTDC3](http://www.alberene.com/prodinfo.asp?number=JBTDC3) ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/1172 "2018-01-31T20:05:48Z")
I could dig a necktie (if I ever wore neckties, that is) with pictures of the [Christen Eagle](http://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/airliners/8/2/1/1776128.jpg?v=v40) with its standard colorful paint job, as shown here. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/1173 "2018-02-27T19:15:38Z")
The President strikes a deal with Boeing for two new Air Force One aircraft that will cost… pretty much what he said was too much just over a year ago: [https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/27/politics/boeing-air-force-one-donald-trump/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/27/politics/boeing-air-force-one-donald-trump/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/1174 "2018-02-28T18:41:25Z")
Anyone use foreflight? Esp with a non GPS equipped tablet? I built a[stratux](http://stratux.me/) ADS-B in box (including an external GPS) which will handle ADS-B In and GPS functions so I don’t need a GPS tablet (my current one has too little storage for maps) Brian ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/1175 "2018-02-28T22:28:56Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Two neckties I’m sure the gentlemen in this thread will appreciate: > > [http://www.alberene.com/prodinfo.asp?number=FXT210](http://www.alberene.com/prodinfo.asp?number=FXT210) > [http://www.alberene.com/prodinfo.asp?number=JBTDC3](http://www.alberene.com/prodinfo.asp?number=JBTDC3) Not at $50. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/1176 "2018-02-28T22:30:24Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > The President strikes a deal with Boeing for two new Air Force One aircraft that will cost… pretty much what he said was too much just over a year ago: [https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/27/politics/boeing-air-force-one-donald-trump/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/27/politics/boeing-air-force-one-donald-trump/index.html) So much for the Sitter on The Golden Throne’s deal-making abilities. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/1177 "2018-02-28T22:37:40Z")
[House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee Chairman Bill Shuster (R-Pa.), the leading proponent of legislation calling for the removal of air traffic control from the FAA, announced he would no longer pursue the controversial proposal.](https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2018/february/28/atc-giveaway-push-to-end-for-now) It looks like the Give It To The Billionaires Plan to privatise the Air Traffic Control system has been put down for the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/1178 "2018-03-02T21:37:47Z")
Hi. I don’t get around to this site much anymore. Just as well, now I can spend all my time studying my Test Prep books. I’m planning to get my official [BAD ATTITUDE T-shirt](https://www.cafepress.com/aerosavvy.2024281019) that I found on-line a few days ago. If you’ve got BAD ATTITUDE, you can get one too! [Zoomed-in close-up photo.](https://www.cafepress.com/cp/moredetails.aspx?productNo=2024281019&pr=F&showbleed=False&colorNo=-1&tab=1&Zoom=2&subFront=&subBack=&ptn=-1) I’m curious about the picture. (1) Does an attitude indicator EVER actually look like that? (2) What attitude do you think the is picture “trying” to show? [spoiler]I think it’s supposed to show an airplane in a steep descending spiral dive. It took me a few days for it to occur to me that the airplane is also inverted. That leads me to my final question . . ./spoiler If an airplane is really in an inverted steep spiral dive, what would the attitude indicator _really_ look like? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2018, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/1179 "2018-03-03T04:29:30Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Hi. I don’t get around to this site much anymore. Just as well, now I can spend all my time studying my Test Prep books. > > I’m planning to get my official [BAD ATTITUDE T-shirt](https://www.cafepress.com/aerosavvy.2024281019) that I found on-line a few days ago. If you’ve got BAD ATTITUDE, you can get one too! > > [Zoomed-in close-up photo.](https://www.cafepress.com/cp/moredetails.aspx?productNo=2024281019&pr=F&showbleed=False&colorNo=-1&tab=1&Zoom=2&subFront=&subBack=&ptn=-1) > > I’m curious about the picture. > (1) Does an attitude indicator EVER actually look like that? > (2) What attitude do you think the is picture “trying” to show? > > [spoiler]I think it’s supposed to show an airplane in a steep descending spiral dive. It took me a few days for it to occur to me that the airplane is also inverted. That leads me to my final question . . ./spoiler If an airplane is really in an inverted steep spiral dive, what would the attitude indicator _really_ look like? It’s showing the wings rotated to the right 140 from level flight with the nose pointed below the horizon. If you hit a wind vortice from the plane in front of you that’s what it will look like. [Best not to be near the ground when that happens](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXlv16ETueU). Been there. Done that. At 10,000 feet. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2018, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499/1180 "2018-03-03T04:38:48Z")
Actually I think I have that backwards. It’s a rotation to the left. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=58) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-1/600499.md?page=60)