# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 14, 2026, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892 "2026-06-14T14:38:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/441 "2026-09-21T23:34:47Z")
A post was merged into an existing topic: [AI vs. Al (Artificial Intelligence vs. someone named Albert or Alfred)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ai-vs-al-artificial-intelligence-vs-someone-named-albert-or-alfred/1033215/13) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2026, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/442 "2026-09-22T04:36:57Z")
That made me laugh ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2026, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/443 "2026-09-22T04:40:42Z")
> [@Raza](#): > > The article didn’t say, so I assume it autonomously flew the arrivals and approaches as dictated by ATC. I wonder how that worked. That was my question too. Cirrus has a self landing system that apparently does this but I don’t thing it’s a 2-way conversation. If I had to guess I’d say there’s a remote pilot handling communication. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2026, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/444 "2026-09-22T06:53:40Z")
There was a safety pilot on board, so they could have handled the communications. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2026, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/445 "2026-09-22T19:31:37Z")
Another F-16 crash, ejection, safe pilot. > **[USAF F-16 Crashes At Spangdahlem Air Base In Germany](https://www.twz.com/air/usaf-f-16-crashes-at-spangdahlem-air-base-in-germany)** > > The base is home of U.S. Air Force F-16CMs that specialize in the 'wild weasel' mission set. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2026, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/446 "2026-09-23T03:40:52Z")
The Cirrus (and the other models of aircraft that integrate Garmin’s Autoland) don’t do two way comms with ATC. They declare an emergency and repeatedly announce next actions, the assumption being that ATC is listening and clearing the route. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2026, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/447 "2026-09-23T19:19:16Z")
An adversary contractor crashed. Pilot ejected and was rescued. > **[Hawker Hunter Formerly Known As 'Miss Demeanour' Crashes off California](https://theaviationist.com/2026/09/23/hunter-n345ax-crash-pacific/)** > > Hawker Hunter N345AX, operated by red air contractor ATAC but formerly a UK airshow star as G-PSST, went down a few miles off the California coast on Sep. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2026, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/448 "2026-09-23T20:16:08Z")
I gotta say that I think it makes a lot more sense to use modern production training jets, not 70+yo (!) run out corroding unmaintainable warbirds for that role. As a matter of both crew and public safety, DoD should be legally required to only contract with outfits running modern equipment. Because otherwise it’s a race to the cost bottom. And we know how those races always end. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2026, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/449 "2026-09-23T21:39:56Z")
A shame to lose another Hawker Hunter. Beautiful plane. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/450 "2026-09-24T15:26:35Z")
What is an adversary contractor? Someone a government hires to carry out certain military, enforcement, or security duties - and if so, what sorts of things? (I know Google is my friend, but I’d rather learn from you all). John ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/451 "2026-09-24T16:32:12Z")
I was curious as well. They are training AWACS folks, and the adversary plane is playing the part on a possible enemy for the trainees to detect (I think I got that right) Brian ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/452 "2026-09-24T17:34:07Z")
Ah, I see. Makes sense - thanks. Indeed, the Hunter is a beautiful plane. Even though only the engines appear in it, now I want to see [this documentary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nae_Pasaran). ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/453 "2026-09-24T18:29:19Z")
My answer came from my first read of the article. Now I’m not so sure. I am pretty sure it plays as some sort of enemy aircraft for folks to train around. Brian ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/454 "2026-09-24T18:31:03Z")
The other things the adversaries do is pretend to be enemy fighters for air to air combat practice with / against US fighters. This got started back in the Viet Nam era by first USN then USAF. Once it got going, USAFs effort was always larger scale than USN’s. Here’s some history & general info: **[Aggressor squadron - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggressor_squadron)**. Nowadays (or almost all) of USN / USAF-operated adversary stuff has been shut down for budget / headcount reasons and private companies are contracted instead to do the same work. Down at the bottom of that wiki article is a good intro to current contractor ops with a bunch of links to other wiki articles. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/455 "2026-09-24T18:32:45Z")
It’s probably a good idea to use as mix of old and new aircraft in adversary training, as not every enemy will be fully equipped with state of the art equipment. Older aircraft may sometimes do things that are unexpected for newer ones, and your pilots need to be familiar with all possible enemy capabilities. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/456 "2026-09-24T21:39:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Dollar per dollar, news drones exceed helicopters in all those categories. But don’t the news organizations also know this little secret? I worked in TV news for 25 years and I know that if a newsroom can save money using a drone instead of a chopper that’s exactly what they’re going to do. Since money is the number one driver of decisions such as this I have to assume that that newsroom had a good reason to spend extra $$$ using a chopper over a drone. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/457 "2026-09-24T22:27:08Z")
Among other things, a news chopper is advertising. If you see a news chopper circling overhead, you might not know what’s going on, but you know what channel to tune into to see. That’s not going to work so well with a drone. Plus, drones tend to be shorter-ranged, and must stay within the line-of-sight of the operator, so where a chopper can suddenly zoom off from a situation that’s been resolved over to another 20 air miles away, and arrive there in just a few minutes, a single drone would have to be recovered and then have to make its way via surface transportation to a new point of interest. If you have several drones, the savings from not operating the chopper will be drowned out by the expense of having to have an operator near each drone. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2026, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/458 "2026-09-25T01:30:29Z")
> [@SunUp](#): > > Among other things, a news chopper is advertising. This probably has something to do with it but money will eventually win out. Remember the ipad introduction? What a stupid product. A tiny computer with no external keyboard. In the aviation market alone it revolutionized handheld moving map displays. And by revolutionized I mean wiped out. An $800 ipad not only replaced a $3,500 handheld unit it was better by many magnitudes. Can a drone do everything a helicopter do? pretty much. A helicopter has the advantage of distance from the center of a news station. That can be covered by dispersing drones around the area. Once on-station the advantages of a drone takes over. A tethered drone can hover indefinitely with a power cable. Multiple drones can be set for different views. All at a fraction of the cost of a helicopter. I think this is the direction news stations will gravitate toward. We’re starting to see serious [tethered drones](https://www.volarious.com/vscout-tethered-drone-systems)enter the market. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2026, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/459 "2026-09-25T12:14:26Z")
I think you’re spot-on that newsgathering drones are a coming thing. And many newscopters will be obsoleted within a decade. I also think you’re a bit premature on how quickly this will happen, or how much it’s already happened. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2026, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/460 "2026-09-25T13:58:48Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > And many newscopters will be obsoleted within a decade. This has been happening for a while now. Not so much because of drones, just because TV news is a shrinking business and helicopters are expensive. All three major stations in Columbus had helicopters at one point, but they’re all gone now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892.md?page=24)