# The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other) (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 14, 2026, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892 "2026-06-14T14:38:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![KCB615](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ea666f/32.png) [@KCB615](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KCB615)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2026, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/501 "2026-10-03T02:13:28Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > in the vid, the passenger from 8C mentioned the co-pilot STABBED the pilot (he has very good command of english)…you wouldn’t use the verb STABBED when hitting a person with an axe .. A crash axe has a blade on one side and a 3- to 4-inch long pick on the other. Depending on which side he was using, “stabbed” would be a very good description of what the wounds would have looked like. I’ve been asking for 24 years why there’s an axe on the flight deck, yet they won’t let the pilots bring a butter knife through the checkpoint. A crash axe is next to useless as a device to escape a crushed/deformed aircraft, particularly given the structure around the nose. Yet it’s within arm’s reach of both pilots and easily used as a weapon. Maybe this might swing the FAA’s mind on continuing to require them. Don’t even get me started about the fire extinguisher… ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2026, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/502 "2026-10-03T06:13:49Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > did I pick that up correctly?: the pilot used the nose wheel as rudder-surrogate (8:00m into the vid) - or was that once they were touched-down? I’d have thought differential thrust would be used for yaw? I took it to mean the nose gear was going to take all the side load on the runway that the rudder would correct. At that point you just want it planted on a hard surface so the main gear brakes can be used for differential steering. > [@Al128](#): > > in the vid, the passenger from 8C mentioned the co-pilot STABBED the pilot (he has very good command of english)…you wouldn’t use the verb STABBED when hitting a person with an axe .. The passenger probably didn’t see the event in play but we’ll certainly get clarification from the pilot. I just think a basic knife driven into the chest is going to have serious penetration power. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2026, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/503 "2026-10-03T10:01:19Z")
> [@KCB615](#): > > I’ve been asking for 24 years why there’s an axe on the flight deck, yet they won’t let the pilots bring a butter knife through the checkpoint. A crash axe is next to useless as a device to escape a crushed/deformed aircraft, particularly given the structure around the nose. Yet it’s within arm’s reach of both pilots and easily used as a weapon. Maybe this might swing the FAA’s mind on continuing to require them. > > Don’t even get me started about the fire extinguisher… One of the functions of the crash axe is to pry open panels so you can get the fire extinguisher in behind and extinguish an inflight fire. ---
**Author:** ![KCB615](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ea666f/32.png) [@KCB615](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KCB615)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2026, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/504 "2026-10-03T11:08:20Z")
I’ll accept that - but why, then, the blade side? That also now brings up the fire extinguisher. The flight deck fire extinguisher on every aircraft I’ve ever been in is a halon extinguisher rated for BC fires. That’s ignitable liquids with energized electrical. Excepting much older aircraft that had fuel gauges with live fuel behind them, or small aircraft with actual fuel control valves within arm’s reach, how much ignitable liquids are there on a modern air carrier flight deck? The regulations take the Class C to mean “puts out electrical fires.” Sure, there’s tons of electric overhead, in front, and behind. But an electrical fire isn’t electricity burning, it’s the Class A stuff that’s burning near the conductors, and you don’t want the agent you’re spraying to conduct said electricity back to the operator - so water is out. It’s the wrong tool - we’re giving the pilots a hammer to tighten a pipe fitting. I’ve pondered for a long time if the Swissair 111 crew had a proper extinguisher, could they have made Halifax (of course barring the time troubleshooting the smell)? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2026, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/505 "2026-10-03T15:33:09Z")
I concur with @LSLGuy – that’s an extremely well written article, and as a bonus, provides the best explanation of how a turbofan jet engine works that I’ve ever read. I love lyrical lines like this: > Getting this feedback loop [on a jet engine] started isn’t intuitive, because the compressors provide the air that powers the turbine that spins the compressors, creating a bootstrapping problem … the important thing to understand about the compressor section of a turbine engine is that it is an affront to god; it does its job not because it wants to work, but because engineers much smarter than me have somehow tricked it into working. It beautifully illustrates my basic belief, that what jet engines do is impossible, and that’s why they’re extremely expensive and exquisitely well engineered! 🙂 I was glad to see that the author is associated with Mentour Pilot (Petter Hornfeldt) who produces excellent aviation videos and for whom I have sufficient admiration that I have one of his T-shirts! ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2026, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/506 "2026-10-03T17:07:55Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > in the vid, the passenger from 8C mentioned the co-pilot STABBED the pilot (he has very good command of english)…you wouldn’t use the verb STABBED when hitting a person with an axe .. You would if you were a Hebrew speaker. There isn’t really an appropriate word in Hebrew for attacking someone with an axe. “Hack” doesn’t have an equivalent, and the words for “Chop” and “Cut” are associated with cooking, not violence. The only commonly-used word for hurting someone with a blade would be the Hebrew word for “Stab”. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2026, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/507 "2026-10-03T17:36:02Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > It beautifully illustrates my basic belief, that what jet engines do is impossible, and that’s why they’re extremely expensive and exquisitely well engineered! Jet engines are endlessly fascinating. Their origin story is really interesting too - I’ve read a couple of books about Frank Whittle, the inventor. The Germans were the first to actually fly a jet engine airplane, in 1939. But my reading of the history is that they benefited from reading Whittle’s patents. A good case can be made that Whittle changed the world more than the Wright brothers. The jet engine made air travel practicable and much safer. Whittle lived into the 1990s and got to ride on the Concorde! How cool is that? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2026, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/508 "2026-10-03T17:44:13Z")
> **[Coast Guard searching off Nantucket for medical evacuation jet carrying 6...](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/coast-guard-searching-nantucket-missing-jet-bermuda-boston-rcna601265)** > > The Gulfstream jet departed Bermuda Saturday morning. Six people dead? I assume if the communications equipment went bad they would have arrived by now? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2026, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/509 "2026-10-03T20:13:26Z")
A jet like that has 6, maaybe 7 hours hours of fuel. Whenever they took off (the article doesn’t say), add 7 hours and you’ll know _when_ they’re on the ground / water for sure. All that’s left is to solve the problem for _where_. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/510 "2026-10-04T00:19:22Z")
One could subtract the fuel used to get to the last known position to narrow the search area (I assume that was done). Even with electrical issues could the ELT be triggered pre crash? Brian ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/511 "2026-10-04T00:21:49Z")
They roughly know where it went down: > **[HTT104 Latitude Air Ambulance Flight Tracking and History - FlightAware](https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/HTT104)** > > Flight status, tracking, and historical data for Latitude Air Ambulance 104 (HTT104) including scheduled, estimated, and actual departure and arrival times. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/512 "2026-10-04T00:50:16Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > Even with electrical issues could the ELT be triggered pre crash? Varies by airplane. Some are readily accessible, others are not. Some are wrapped up inside the life raft and inaccessible until after it’s inflated outside. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/513 "2026-10-04T01:07:17Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > ELT I had to look it up. Is it the same as an EPIRB? Or is there some fundamental difference that give it a different name? ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/514 "2026-10-04T01:16:53Z")
Effectively the same device these days but with application-specific differences. ELTs trigger on impact, EPIRBs auto mode is usually water-activated. There are certification-related differences with installation and batteries and another bunch of stuff with what I assume involves a couple inches thick stack of paperwork. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/515 "2026-10-04T03:02:10Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > The Germans were the first to actually fly a jet engine airplane, in 1939. One of the fascinating aspects of the jet engine is the feedback loop wherein the expanding gas in the combustion chamber powers the turbine, which turbine in turn powers the compressor stages that forces everything aft. Plus powering the fan. IIRC, the very first German jet engine used a separate power source – I believe a regular piston engine – to drive the compressor. They had not yet caught on to the idea that a jet engine could, in effect, power itself, provided that you kept spraying fuel into the combustion chamber. What never ceases to amaze me is how this produces a net positive thrust of enormous power. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/516 "2026-10-04T03:05:36Z")
> The [U.S. Coast Guard](https://www.news.uscg.mil/Northeast-District/) says crews have found a debris field confirmed to be from the missing medical transport aircraft that was carrying six people from Bermuda to Boston when it lost contact with the [Federal Aviation Administration](https://www.faa.gov/) early Saturday, prompting a massive search off Nantucket, Massachusetts. > **[Coast Guard finds debris from medical plane amid search off Nantucket](https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/coast-guard-search-nantucket-missing-medical-plane-boston-bermuda-faa/4025253/)** > > Flight controllers lost contact with the air ambulance, traveling from Bermuda to Boston, early Saturday, the USCG said of its search off Nantucket. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/517 "2026-10-04T04:56:14Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > IIRC, the very first German jet engine used a separate power source – I believe a regular piston engine – to drive the compressor. I’ve been trying to pin that down. I know there was an Italian Engineer who proposed it in 1931. From Wiki : During 1931, Italian [aeronautics engineer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerospace_engineering "Aerospace engineering") [Secondo Campini](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondo_Campini "Secondo Campini") submitted his studies on [jet propulsion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_propulsion "Jet propulsion"), including a proposal for a so-called _thermo-jet_ to power an aircraft. Nothing was built until 1941. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/518 "2026-10-04T09:07:56Z")
Thank you for the information. I did assume the ones on airplanes were a bit more robust than the one my buddy has on his boat. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/519 "2026-10-04T12:09:56Z")
Taking a slightly different tack: ELTs were the original 1960s invention and were attached to the airplane. And are fundamentally “dumb” devices. EPIRBS were essentially a “port” (in the IT sense) of military personal rescue radios into the civilian world. With a fancy digital overlay since they were invented / standardized relatively recently. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2026, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892/520 "2026-10-04T12:17:33Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > One of the fascinating aspects of the jet engine is the feedback loop wherein the expanding gas in the combustion chamber powers the turbine, which turbine in turn powers the compressor stages that forces everything aft. Plus powering the fan. All true. But … How is that different from a single-cylinder 4-stroke ICE engine where the power stroke provides the energy to cause the following exhaust, intake, and compression strokes? Answer is: “It isn’t.” It’s the same exact feedback loop, just implemented in different machinery. Suck Squeeze Bang Blow === intake, compression, power, exhaust. The magic of turbine engines is the fact it’s done continuously, not episodically. But if you think hard about it, that just means the same exact cycle is happening, just much more rapidly; in microseconds not milliseconds. From the outside at macro scale the turbine engine operating cycle looks smooth and continuous. But from the POV of any small parcel of air coming in the front, it’s the same 4-cycle experience delivered assembly-line style as it’s whisked first through and then out of the machinery. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-aviation-thread-general-and-other-part-2/1030892.md?page=27)