# The great, ongoing Canadian current events and politics thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 16, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059 "2011-05-16T03:05:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/302 "2011-08-23T00:41:47Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > And there would be the inevitable comparisons with Greece as that is where Canada would be if the NDP were ever in power. I doubt we’d be as good as the [founders of western civilization](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece), but the NDP would probably take us halfway to that kind of greatness. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/303 "2011-08-23T01:02:17Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Well, there’s the obvious point that Reagan lived a long life and was about a zillion years old when he died and long retired, while Layton was just 61 and had just achieved something amazing for the NDP and now will not be around to be the Leader of the Opposition, so there’s an element of tragedy to Layton’s death there wasn’t for Reagan. > > Also… > > Reagan held power. > > Jack Layton did not. > > Had Layton become Prime Minister and then died eight years from now, the reaction to his death would have been a more honest examination of his record, because he would have pissed a lot of people off. Bad analogy, I know. I just couldn’t think of a better one. I genuinely believe though, that most of the condolences are non-partisan shows of unity. If and when a comparable conservative Canadian analog passes in a similar fashion, I hope people will be as charitable. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/304 "2011-08-23T01:09:13Z")
[QUOTE=antonio107] Bad analogy, I know. I just couldn’t think of a better one. I genuinely believe though, that most of the condolences are non-partisan shows of unity. If and when a comparable conservative Canadian analog passes in a similar fashion, I hope people will be as charitable. [/QUOTE] I guarantee you, that if Stephen Harper resigned his post/died from Cancer within the time frame as Jack did this past month there would be NOONE trying to use his death as an opportunity to slag his polices (“Sure he died from cancer, but he also killed the long form census”). No matter how much Harper’s politics might be hated, under the above circumstances he could pen such a beautiful deathbed letter that it would bring tears to even the hardest cynic’s eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/305 "2011-08-23T01:31:55Z")
I’d also like to add of all of Canada’s politicians, Jack Layton would probably be the one that I could have, or would have liked to be friends with. Yeah, I doubt we’d agree much in the politics area, but every time I heard him on Rutherford, Dave and him would get into it, but there didn’t seem to be any animosity there. He seemed like a nice guy. Whether that is the reality, I can’t say. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/306 "2011-08-23T01:37:27Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > No matter how much Harper’s politics might be hated, … I haven’t seen that his ‘politics’ are causing the country to be managed much differently than the previous Liberal governments have done before him. I can’t see how rational people can ‘hate’ something that they previously supported just because the person carrying it out now is of a different party. ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/307 "2011-08-23T01:49:42Z")
And **mnemosyne** , yeah, they’re kinda dumb. I mean, there’s no trillium flag at Landsdowne (or CFL team…shhhh! :D), but Ontario is not Quebec. Some people want to conflate all things Quebecois with separatism…a CFL crowd full of rowdy drunks isn’t exactly a MENSA meeting. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/308 "2011-08-23T01:51:23Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > I haven’t seen that his ‘politics’ are causing the country to be managed much differently than the previous Liberal governments have done before him. I can’t see how rational people can ‘hate’ something that they previously supported just because the person carrying it out now is of a different party. I watch too much American politics show, so I guess I forget we do it a little bit different in the Great White North…:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/309 "2011-08-23T02:47:55Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > I haven’t seen that his ‘politics’ are causing the country to be managed much differently than the previous Liberal governments have done before him. I can’t see how rational people can ‘hate’ something that they previously supported just because the person carrying it out now is of a different party. Because it’s a different party. People choose sides and defend it ferociously. You yourself, barely hours into the discussion of Layton’s passing, have already taken the opportunity to claim Jack Layton would have bankrupted Canada in hte manner of Greece, despite the fact that in fact this never came to pass, will never come to pass, and even if the circumstances had allowed Layton to become PM is of extremly dubious likelihood. You probably didn’t even notice you were taking an unsubstantiated and pointless partisan shot at the man, but you did. I mean, Harper is quite regularly criticized _for things he doesn’t even do_. Hardly a week goes by he isn’t pilloried in the Toronto Star or on my Facebook page, or both, for his plans to bring back laws against abortion. Sure is taking a long time. For all we make fun of American politics, we can be pretty vicious. We just have more targets to aim our vitroil at, so it gets spread around a little more. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/310 "2011-08-23T03:07:27Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > People choose sides and defend it ferociously. You yourself, barely hours into the discussion of Layton’s passing, have already taken the opportunity to claim Jack Layton would have bankrupted Canada in hte manner of Greece, despite the fact that in fact this never came to pass, will never come to pass, and even if the circumstances had allowed Layton to become PM is of extremly dubious likelihood. You probably didn’t even notice you were taking an unsubstantiated and pointless partisan shot at the man, but you did. I knew exactly what I was saying. I don’t have to agree with the guy to say I probably would have liked him personally. Regardless as to whether he ever came to power we can comment on his the potential consequences of his proposed policies. I can do the same thing for the Conservatives, too. Or the Liberals for that matter. Yet for the latter two we do have records of what the results of their policies are. And no matter how much I don’t like the Liberals, I have a pretty good idea what a government would be like if they came back to power, unlike some of the other posters who when the Conservatives won the majority this time round were on the points of not knowing what they would do or how they could deal with the results, like we’d lost democracy or something. I’m pretty sure you were involved with that discussion, also. We can only speculate on what the consequences of an NDP government would be. I’m pretty sure we’d end up like Greece as they’d probably spend like drunken sailors on a two day shore leave. I’m sure I’d like to be proven wrong if they ever do come to power and will gladly admit it. Yet, I’m sure the discussion at that point will be, “We’re not exactly like Greece, because, uh, we have more trees!”, or some other irrelevant bullhockey. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/311 "2011-08-23T03:35:29Z")
Have a look at Nova Scotia and Manitoba, and get back to us on that one. And don’t forget Bob Rae cutting social spending. Greece we ain’t. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/312 "2011-08-23T04:18:17Z")
These were parties that managed all of Canada or regional politicians in provincial areas? Just want to keep the apples in the apple bin and the oranges in the one for oranges. Frankly, Manitoba and Nova Scotia could fail significantly without affecting the ROC much. Not so if Canada fails. It is okay to play dice with extra money, not your core savings. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/313 "2011-08-23T06:01:56Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Have a look at Nova Scotia and Manitoba, and get back to us on that one. And don’t forget Bob Rae cutting social spending. Greece we ain’t. I don’t really know what you’re aiming at here - is there something going on in Manitoba and Nova Scotia I should know about? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/314 "2011-08-23T09:46:09Z")
They have NDP governments and are doing quite well. This is in response to Uzi’s opinion that a federal NDP government would economically ruin Canada the way government spending has ruined Greece. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/315 "2011-08-23T13:39:32Z")
Not to mention that Germany has had many years of being run by Social Democrats, and they have the strongest economy in the EU. Greece may be Germany’s bitch right now, but the economic philosophy of socialism has operated in both countries. As far as distinguishing red from blue here, I can think of four major policy differences between the Conservatives and the Liberals right off the top of my head. 1. National Day Care - the conservatives tore it up in the first year. 2. The Kelowna Accord - the conservatives tore it up in their first year. Now, they’ve adopted a ‘time is running out - sign this or else’ policy, which is appalling when you consider that it isn’t the First Nations who have been slowing the process down. 3. The Gun Registry - probably doomed now that the conservatives have a majority. When it’s torn up, then it will indeed have become a colossal waste of money. 4. Remember the Somalia Enquiry, over the conduct of peace keeping forces in Somalia? Contrast that with the allegations of the Canadian government knowingly handing over Afghan detainees to be tortured. For the one, we learned every minute detail over the course of two years. We are still waiting to learn the truth in Afghanistan. Whether you can see the difference between blue and red or not, they are distinct colours. I find, **Uzi** , that you tend to see only the worst in the Liberals and only what you see as the best in the Tories. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/316 "2011-08-23T14:04:31Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > 1. National Day Care - the conservatives tore it up in the first year. Good thing, too. Something we can’t afford. > [@](#): > > 1. The Kelowna Accord - the conservatives tore it up in their first year. Now, they’ve adopted a ‘time is running out - sign this or else’ policy, which is appalling when you consider that it isn’t the First Nations who have been slowing the process down. Geez, more money going down a bottomless pit > [@](#): > > 1. The Gun Registry - probably doomed now that the conservatives have a majority. When it’s torn up, then it will indeed have become a colossal waste of money. And yet even more money on a useless project as long guns are rarely used in illegal activities. > [@](#): > > 1. Remember the Somalia Enquiry, over the conduct of peace keeping forces in Somalia? Shit happens in war. Don’t go if you don’t like it. Btw, I’m all for not going. > [@](#): > > Contrast that with the allegations of the Canadian government knowingly handing over Afghan detainees to be tortured. For the one, we learned every minute detail over the course of two years. We are still waiting to learn the truth in Afghanistan. Handing over detainees to the legal government we put in place. Seems like if we don’t trust them to do the right thing then we should remove them and put someone in place who will. Btw, shit happens in war. Don’t go if you don’t like it. Rules on conducting war are put in place by those who wish to lose them. > [@](#): > > Whether you can see the difference between blue and red or not, they are distinct colours. I find, **Uzi** , that you tend to see only the worst in the Liberals and only what you see as the best in the Tories. Hmmm… Cancelled helicopters, NEP, real estate deals on the back of paper napkins, sponsorship scandals. Potato, potahto. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/317 "2011-08-23T14:17:19Z")
If money is all you are concerned about, go become a loan shark. Governments should aim for a better society. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/318 "2011-08-23T14:29:43Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > I haven’t seen that his ‘politics’ are causing the country to be managed much differently than the previous Liberal governments have done before him. I can’t see how rational people can ‘hate’ something that they previously supported just because the person carrying it out now is of a different party. The Tories have been governing the country for 5 and 1/2 years now. 1) Yes, they have their own ‘true blue’ set of past/present/future polices and objectives for this country. 2) Opponents of Tory polices **include those who oppose Grit polices** (You need to recognize who’s currently in the opposition). So with all this in mind you can’t possibly see (in the slightest) how rational people might hate the Tories governing? Of course there’s always the tribalists who always hate “the others,” but I’m talking about rational people. You’re basically saying that the Tories have no rational opponents. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/319 "2011-08-23T15:20:35Z")
By the way, **Uzi** , I’d like to thank you for disproving your own thesis. In pointing up all the Liberal policies you disagree with, you demonstrated that Stephen Harper’s > [@Uzi](#): > > ‘politics’ are causing the country to be managed much differently than the previous Liberal governments have done before him. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/320 "2011-08-23T18:01:49Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > If money is all you are concerned about, go become a loan shark. Governments should aim for a better society. You make an interesting point that I’m not sure I agree with (I know, that “thunk” was you falling off your chair in surprise), but I will do some thinking on. Thanks for your clarification, **Muffin**. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/321 "2011-08-23T21:53:12Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > You make an interesting point that I’m not sure I agree with (I know, that “thunk” was you falling off your chair in surprise)… Maybe I didn’t feel the earthquake after all… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059.md?page=17)