# The great, ongoing Canadian current events and politics thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 16, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059 "2011-05-16T03:05:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Rekd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Rekd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rekd)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/342 "2011-08-26T17:28:27Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > \*\*The great, ongoing Canadian current events and politics thread. \*\* > > …What are your thoughts? My first 2 thoughts are “What street is Canada on so I can see what kind of events they have?” and “They have politics there?”. Foregoing the former, how much input do the citizens of Canada have on the way the country is run? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/343 "2011-08-26T17:46:26Z")
> [@Rekd](#): > > My first 2 thoughts are “What street is Canada on so I can see what kind of events they have?” and “They have politics there?”. \ It’s like we have a whole separate country up here! I know! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/344 "2011-08-26T17:47:01Z")
I was just reading a column in the Globe and Mail about reaction to various events. The commentator ended with a quote from the chalk writings at Nathan Philips Square: “We will not lose hope and we will not give up.” That’s what we need to hear. Not fear and division and the diminishment of our lives and views, but something that calls us outwards to become better than we are. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/345 "2011-08-26T18:11:04Z")
> [@Rekd](#): > > My first 2 thoughts are “What street is Canada on so I can see what kind of events they have?” and “They have politics there?”. Foregoing the former, how much input do the citizens of Canada have on the way the country is run? None. What we have is an expansive bureaucracy that self regulates the ad hoc cycle of “elections”. This typically results in 3 main cycles driving the pseudo cyclical swings in the allocation of “power” to political parties across the authoritarian/anarchist and free market/command economy scales. This structure emerged following the 1885 completion of the Trans Canada railroad. The nascent bureaucracy struggled to cobble together the necessary mechanics for their ongoing rule and you can see that in the rash of PMs propped up following Macdonald’s last term. Some actually argue that the push _intensified_ during Macdonal’s final term. So what we have is an elaborate sham legislative/executive and judicial system that stretches from the municipal to federal levels. You’ll note that the provincial structure emerged slowly across 100 years and this is typically taken as evidence of the central controlling authority establishing sufficient presence in the regions to continue with the overall disenfranchisement of the general population. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/346 "2011-08-26T18:32:58Z")
Actually, we’re an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week. But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs, but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more… Help! Help! I’m being repressed! ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/347 "2011-08-26T18:35:46Z")
Well that’s what they _want_ you to think. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/348 "2011-08-26T18:57:20Z")
> [@Rekd](#): > > My first 2 thoughts are “What street is Canada on so I can see what kind of events they have?” and “They have politics there?”. Foregoing the former, how much input do the citizens of Canada have on the way the country is run? So…3 months and 7 pages later, you come up with this? Awesome. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/349 "2011-08-26T19:46:27Z")
Be fair **mnemosyne** , he’s only had 5 days to write up around 90 idiot posts. Quality suffers when you try for that kind of throughput. ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/350 "2011-08-26T19:48:59Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Actually, we’re an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week. But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs, but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more… Help! Help! I’m being repressed! Bloody peasant! ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/351 "2011-08-26T20:37:44Z")
And BC voters have [rejected the HST in a referendum](http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110826/bc-hst-referendum-vote-110826/20110826/?hub=EdmontonHome). Instead of paying a 12% HST, they will apparently go back to paying a 5% GST and a 7% PST. Am I the only one wondering just how that makes them any better off? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/352 "2011-08-26T21:24:11Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > And BC voters have [rejected the HST in a referendum](http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110826/bc-hst-referendum-vote-110826/20110826/?hub=EdmontonHome). Instead of paying a 12% HST, they will apparently go back to paying a 5% GST and a 7% PST. > > Am I the only one wondering just how that makes them any better off? 😃 I believe, but am not sure, that some goods and services were PST-exempt. So, they would be subject to the 5% GST, but not the PST. With an HST, consumers would effectively be paying PST on PST-exempt goods and services. That’s the logic that was explained on this morning’s TV news, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/353 "2011-08-26T21:42:23Z")
> [@Rekd](#): > > Foregoing the former, how much input do the citizens of Canada have on the way the country is run? When examining Canadian political theory, one must keep in mind at all times that the political system developed through centuries, imported through an act of the UK Parliament, and currently operating is valid; but is also subject to various consultative processes from a number of sources that could be argued to be necessary to ensure proper advice; including, but not limited to, such bodies as can reasonably be accommodated in any functioning democratic society; namely, individuals, groups, and other institutions that are constitutionally-recognized as viable, and within the context of a liberal democracy where “liberal” does not necessarily mean the ideals propounded by a political party; but rather, a term synonymous with a functioning free society where the bodies previously alluded to have certain rights afforded them by various means, both in writing and as traditionally understood; the latter of which, while once being granted at the pleasure of the reigning monarch of the day, are now understood to be inviolable; thus holding just as any other rights that may have been granted; or indeed, such as may be granted in the future through the amending process; that is, as prescribed by the constitution, and supported in that endeavour by various and sundry acts of Parliament, a body that has traditionally been selected by the citizens of Canada. Hope that explains it. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/354 "2011-08-26T22:03:21Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I believe, but am not sure, that some goods and services were PST-exempt. So, they would be subject to the 5% GST, but not the PST. With an HST, consumers would effectively be paying PST on PST-exempt goods and services. That’s the logic that was explained on this morning’s TV news, anyway. I was thinking it would be something like that - in Ontario, the HST has been particularly noticeable in the price of gas, and in the length of time it now takes me to do my taxes. (Basically, every bit of income and every bit of expense has to have the GST extracted if it was earned/paid out of province, and HST extracted if it was earned/paid in province. It leaves me sorely tempted to pay an office assistant for half a day a month to enter it all in. The last thing I needed was one more thing to make doing my taxes less pleasant.) Still, was it really that much more expensive (in BC) with HST rather than PST/GST? ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/355 "2011-08-26T22:22:39Z")
I presume there are many more PST-exempt purchases in a budget than the cumulative compound over-payment of having two taxes on everything else in said budget? (Assuming the PST and GST are compounded like they are in Québec). Otherwise the voters are stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/356 "2011-08-26T23:04:57Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > When examining Canadian political theory, one must keep in mind at all times that the political system developed through centuries, imported through an act of the UK Parliament, and currently operating is valid; but is also subject to various consultative processes from a number of sources that could be argued to be necessary to ensure proper advice; including, but not limited to, such bodies as can reasonably be accommodated in any functioning democratic society; namely, individuals, groups, and other institutions that are constitutionally-recognized as viable, and within the context of a liberal democracy where “liberal” does not necessarily mean the ideals propounded by a political party; but rather, a term synonymous with a functioning free society where the bodies previously alluded to have certain rights afforded them by various means, both in writing and as traditionally understood; the latter of which, while once being granted at the pleasure of the reigning monarch of the day, are now understood to be inviolable; thus holding just as any other rights that may have been granted; or indeed, such as may be granted in the future through the amending process; that is, as prescribed by the constitution, and supported in that endeavour by various and sundry acts of Parliament, a body that has traditionally been selected by the citizens of Canada. Every now and then I read something that reminds me that you are now a lawyer. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/357 "2011-08-26T23:07:19Z")
> [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](#): > > Bloody peasant! 'Ow do you get to be king then? I didn’t vote for you. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/358 "2011-08-26T23:13:44Z")
I knew somebody more knowledgeable than I am would be willing to take one for the team and explain Canadian politics to him, **Spoons.** 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/359 "2011-08-26T23:28:30Z")
Actually, I’ve been meaning to ask for a while - what, if any, summertime events, festivals or fairs has folks been to? Here in Toronto, we’re in the midst of BuskerFest - my wife got treated yesterday to the sight of a young Australian contortionist folding herself in half. The spectacular finish of her act was her climbing a scaffold and stuffing herself into a plexiglas box small enough to fit in the overhead bin of a commercial flight… I got to sing/play at AugustFest in my home town of Brandon - an annual event where musicians and singers who have a connection either to the city or to the university get invited back to perform. Has anyone been to Stratford or Shaw festivals? Montréal Jazz Festival? Toronto Jazz Festival? Lanaudière? The Stampede? Any one of thousands of other interesting summertime events? I’d love to hear… ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/360 "2011-08-27T00:30:24Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > And BC voters have [rejected the HST in a referendum](http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110826/bc-hst-referendum-vote-110826/20110826/?hub=EdmontonHome). Instead of paying a 12% HST, they will apparently go back to paying a 5% GST and a 7% PST. > > Am I the only one wondering just how that makes them any better off? 😃 Well, in Ontario we are now paying a combined tax on things like gasoline, electricity and home heating fuel, where only GST was previously applied. I heat with electricity (no natural gas in my area) and I drive 167 Kms one way to work each day. I completely understand how one could be better off without a combined tax. That said though, and given Ontario’s deficit, we’re better off paying the combined tax. We don’t have a repeal process anyway, so it’s a moot point. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059/361 "2011-08-27T05:03:25Z")
It’s possible for the province to exclude certain things from the provincial share of the HST, and Ontario has done this for some items which were previously PST exempt, leaving the HST at the same rate as the previous GST on those items. However, this reduces the province’s share of HST revenues, and complicates the process for the consumer trying to figure out how much tax they should be paying, the business collecting and remitting the tax, and the CRA administering it. My attitude is that if I don’t pay it in HST, I’ll be paying it in higher income tax, property tax, or “user fee” tax. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/582059.md?page=19)