# The Great Ongoing Guitar Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [January 31, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172 "2010-01-31T23:20:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/261 "2010-03-27T19:43:01Z")
My background, once again… I took Beginning Folk Guitar at a community college in the '80s. I bought my Takamine then, and amused myself strumming and singing songs in privacy. A friend needed money, so he sold me his American-made Fender Telecaster and a Hondo II Les Pau copy in the early-'90s. I played with those a bit, but I never progressed beyond chords. My friend wanted his Tele back years later, so I sold it to him. After several years I really began to miss it. A couple of years ago I bought [a duplicate of it](http://www.flickr.com/photos/27492458@N05/2681883579/). Shortly thereafter, I found a Squier (note spelling) in the same colour. I switched out the maple neck for a rosewood one so that it would be a cheap-ass clone to my '93 Fender. Now I had an extra, brand-new, neck. What to do with it? Build another guitar, of course! I sourced a bunch of parts from American-made 2008 Fenders, SCN pickups, and a console with upgraded pots and a four-way switch. My burgundy beauty turned out very nicely and plays well. But I got tired of the ‘joke’ of having a Squier neck on a guitar made of Fender parts; so I bought an unsued maple Tele neck. And then I just _had_ to have another Les Paul. I bought an Epiphone one in cherry sunburst. I took some instruction, but haven’t had the time to continue with it. But I do have some tablature, and have learned to find instruction on YouTube. I just need to find some time. Anyway, I got to looking at that Squier. Wouldn’t it be fun to make it not such a POS? I had plenty of copper shielding tape left over from the Fender build, so I took the Squier apart and shielded the cavities. I found the same SCN pickups and upgraded console I used on the project Fender. ‘In for a penny, in for a pound’, right? Can’t do all this work and still have the top-loading bridge! So I bought a new Fender string-through bridge. I drilled holes through the body for the strings, bought some ferrules, and put everything back together including replacing the Squier pick guard with a new tri-ply Fender one. I left the neck off because there was just _one… more… thing…_ that needed to be done: I needed to countersink the holes on the back of the body for the ferrules. And that’s where I stalled. I didn’t have the proper drill bits, and by the time I got them the holidays were upon me. So the Squier sat. And sat. And sat. More than a year later I decided to finish it. I countersunk the holes and installed the ferrules. But by this time I’d lost interest in opening it up and figuring out where all of the wires went and soldering them together. Last week I took it to The Guitar Doctor. He did the soldering for me. He also ‘set up’ the guitar, including replacing three screws and springs on the bridge so that it would tune correctly. (The ones supplied were too short.) At long last, my Squier is finished, and it sounds as good as a Fender. And well it should, since the only Squier parts on it are the body, the neck, and the knobs! Of course now I have leftover, ‘brand-new’ parts: The Squier maple neck, original, Squier pickups and console, the top-loader bridge, and the pick guard. Say… All I need is a new body! 😛 (I think I’d better nip this in the bud, and just sell the parts on eBay. 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/262 "2010-03-28T03:02:23Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > This all sounds wonderful. It is why I can’t stress enough: MAKE SURE YOUR GUITAR IS PROPERLY SET UP! Sorry for yelling. 😃 I asked the guy at the store to set it up! He said it was normally fifty bucks, but since he didn’t have to restring it, it was twenty. I’m still learning, man. (One of my tremolo springs is vibrating in tune with my A string in weird ways. Further adjustment may be necessary.) ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/263 "2010-03-30T04:56:48Z")
In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=555670), I [asked](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12276945&postcount=40) **WordMan** for his thoughts about guitar amp speakers. I thought his reply was really well done, and something that should be posted in this thread for other players. For context, I had asked why I preferred a Jensen speaker vs a stock speaker in a Fender amp, and what his thoughts were about guitar speakers in general. > [@WordMan](#): > > Here are some basic points of “conventional wisdom” about speakers - > > - There are American Voiced and British Voiced - i.e., Fender-style, traditionally Jensen, Weber, etc. and Marshall/Vox style, typically Celestion. One is not better than the other but people have clear preferences. Dialing in your tone involves making a choice and from the sound of it, you picked Jensen - now, that may be because the speaker model is a step up vs. the Celestion in terms of speaker quality, not due to a preference in the voicing, but we’d have to geek a bit harder if we wanted to go that far. > > But Jensens contribute to the overall Fender / American voice - i.e., more open bell-like cleans and an overdrive that comes on more smoothly, with a steady increase in warmth and grit until you end up in crunchland. The speakers aren’t as “tight” - typically because they are part of a Fender open-back cabinet design (because the cab is open, sound pours out the back, adding more sound in a slight delay from the sound in front - so it is thickened up with that slight delay and tight lows get blurred a bit…). > > British-voiced speakers are heavier built as a rule and break up earlier and with a more aggressive crunch. They are part of a closed-cab system, so the sound is more focused out of the front, and the speakers have a tighter travel, because the air stays in the back, providing a bit of resistance to the cone. All of this contributes to the tighter lows, even gained up, of a guitar through a Marshall stack. > > - Magnet size matters - as a rule, the bigger the magnet, the more responsive the speaker is. I am not sure why. > > - Obviously - cabinet design matters; see above. With amp circuit, speaker type and cab type, geeks like me mess around. I like Fender circuits coupled with Marshall speakers. I really like closed-back cabs, especially in a 2x12 or a 4x12, but for my small rig, I use an open-backed Tweed design (i.e., based on Fender’s “Tweed” amps from the 50’s) fitted with a Celestion Blue… > > - Celestion Alnico Blues rock - they are a small-watt speaker (I think they can handle 15 watts vs. 30 for the Vintage 30’s, but there is a new Celestion Gold which is supposed to be like a Blue but rated at 50w). They were originally in Vox amps and so have that clear articulate tone that crunches up really smoothly and nicely. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/264 "2010-03-30T12:44:10Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=555670), I [asked](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12276945&postcount=40) **WordMan** for his thoughts about guitar amp speakers. I thought his reply was really well done, and something that should be posted in this thread for other players. For context, I had asked why I preferred a Jensen speaker vs a stock speaker in a Fender amp, and what his thoughts were about guitar speakers in general. Thanks, sir. I’d be interested in hearing other folks’ “speaker conventional wisdom”… ---
**Author:** ![kevlaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kevlaw/32/2281_2.png) [@kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevlaw)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/265 "2010-04-02T02:07:25Z")
If I had known how easy Sunshine of Your Love is, I would’ve learned it a long time ago! My wife thinks I am suddenly a genius! ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/266 "2010-04-02T11:55:09Z")
> [@kevlaw](#): > > If I had known how easy Sunshine of Your Love is, I would’ve learned it a long time ago! > > My wife thinks I am suddenly a genius! Oh yeah - fun riff. I still pull it out a couple of times a year; one of those rock guitar DNA things… …have you gotten to the point where you can play the riff and alternate between the full riff and that little lick he does at the end of some of them? That is the beginning of developing “flow” - where you get a groove going, throw in a quick fill lick, and then go back to the groove… ---
**Author:** ![kevlaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kevlaw/32/2281_2.png) [@kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevlaw)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/267 "2010-04-02T14:40:09Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Oh yeah - fun riff. I still pull it out a couple of times a year; one of those rock guitar DNA things… > > …have you gotten to the point where you can play the riff and alternate between the full riff and that little lick he does at the end of some of them? That is the beginning of developing “flow” - where you get a groove going, throw in a quick fill lick, and then go back to the groove… Not yet I’ve also noticed that, although Clapton’s guitar looks exactly like mine, it sounds much better! I wonder how he does that? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/268 "2010-04-02T15:02:21Z")
For one thing, it’s made out of three different guitars! Of course it sounds better! Hey, found a nice sale, but I know nothing about the company. [http://store.guitarfetish.com/spclblblsa.html](http://store.guitarfetish.com/spclblblsa.html) Is this actually a deal or not? I’m looking at this one. [http://store.guitarfetish.com/xaxvvisurofi.html](http://store.guitarfetish.com/xaxvvisurofi.html) ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/269 "2010-04-02T15:50:58Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > For one thing, it’s made out of three different guitars! Of course it sounds better! > > Hey, found a nice sale, but I know nothing about the company. > [http://store.guitarfetish.com/spclblblsa.html](http://store.guitarfetish.com/spclblblsa.html) > Is this actually a deal or not? > I’m looking at this one. > [http://store.guitarfetish.com/xaxvvisurofi.html](http://store.guitarfetish.com/xaxvvisurofi.html) $154?!? Wow. Too rich for me 🙂 Seriously, it violates the Prime Directive: don’t buy a guitar you haven’t played. But you knew that. And, wow, that is tempting. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/270 "2010-04-02T15:59:29Z")
[http://store.guitarfetish.com/xaxvchmacobl.html](http://store.guitarfetish.com/xaxvchmacobl.html) Went for this instead. It looks so good. And it has upgraded tuners. The strat-copy is only $10 more _not_ blemished. ---
**Author:** ![BigShooter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f07891/32.png) [@BigShooter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigShooter)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/271 "2010-04-02T16:16:52Z")
Xaviers have a decent name around the guitar geek circles as good cheap imports. Alot of people buy them just to relic them. I personally have never played one. You’ll have to let us know how it turns out. I’m with **squeegee** - I don’t think I’d ever buy a mass produced guitar brand without playing it first… ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/272 "2010-04-02T16:20:58Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > [http://store.guitarfetish.com/xaxvchmacobl.html](http://store.guitarfetish.com/xaxvchmacobl.html) Went for this instead. It looks so good. And it has upgraded tuners. The strat-copy is only $10 more _not_ blemished. Let us know what you think of it! I’m skeptical of the quality, but willing to learn otherwise. Good luck! ETA: that is a weird layout – a soap bar and a humbucker? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/273 "2010-04-02T18:30:25Z")
Well, the thing of it is, my tax return just came in… and there’s that fair on the 11th so I can look about, and maybe this way I won’t be so hungry. and it’s so pretty. And it did get good reviews. And it has good machine heads, looks like. Now, I know what a humbucker is, but what does the soap bar bit mean? If anyone wants to break down what the specs on the stats on the guitar actually translate to, I’d be appreciative. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/274 "2010-04-02T18:58:48Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Well, the thing of it is, my tax return just came in… and there’s that fair on the 11th so I can look about, and maybe this way I won’t be so hungry. > > and it’s so pretty. And it did get good reviews. And it has good machine heads, looks like. Now, I know what a humbucker is, but what does the soap bar bit mean? If anyone wants to break down what the specs on the stats on the guitar actually translate to, I’d be appreciative. A soapbar is a [P-90](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-90) single coil pickup. The classic version of the pickup is a rounded-ish rectangle, like a bar of soap. P-90’s have quite a following. I’ve just never seen a P-90 paired with a humbucker, but I’m no expert on it. I don’t know that there’s much else to characterize about the guitar specs. The scale length is the same as a Les Paul. At 6.2 lbs it’s a fairly light guitar, hopefully its not neck-heavy. Ask questions if you need more. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/275 "2010-04-02T19:43:36Z")
Okay, it’s made of mahogany. Does that make the sound darker, generally? Alnico isn’t a brand name, is it? It’s aluminum - nickle - cobalt magnets in the pickup, right? So are those pickups higher quality than, say, ones that aren’t advertised as alnico, or are all pickups alnico these days? You know, I guess that sort of thing. Sorry, I’m a little nervous. It looks pretty righteous, and I think buying it was a good move, but… well, you know, after you buy something you get nervous. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/276 "2010-04-02T20:41:09Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Okay, it’s made of mahogany. Does that make the sound darker, generally? Alnico isn’t a brand name, is it? It’s aluminum - nickle - cobalt magnets in the pickup, right? So are those pickups higher quality than, say, ones that aren’t advertised as alnico, or are all pickups alnico these days? > > You know, I guess that sort of thing. Sorry, I’m a little nervous. It looks pretty righteous, and I think buying it was a good move, but… well, you know, after you buy something you get nervous. Mahogany is my favorite body wood and also Gibson’s - it is known for being warm and midrangey and is capable of nice, tight lows with a lot of gain. Bad mahogany sounds thunky and choked, and with a tight, waspy midrange. Soapbars are a favorite pickup - they pair well with mahogany (what is this? a fancy restaurant? “The salmon pairs well with a chardonnay” sorry). P-90’s are an articulate pickup that sound best with a playing style where you play a lot with the Volume and Tone knobs. The Volume knob is NOT a “loudness” knob - it is a “dial up or dial down the amount of gain to clean up or dirty up the tone” knob, and the Tone knob is like a fine tuner on top of that. Old school, and really fun if you get the hang of it. If you play a humbucker and just leave the V and T on 10, a soapbar sounds way to grindy - that’s only for wide-open lead playing… I can’t speak to Xavier’s more than \*\*BigShooter \*\*did. I see the ads… ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/277 "2010-04-02T20:49:46Z")
Seems the Beatles were big on them. I think I’m gonna have fun with this. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/278 "2010-04-02T20:56:32Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Seems the Beatles were big on them. I think I’m gonna have fun with this. Dogears - P-90’s fastened with flanges of plastic on either side - were stock on the Beatles-ubiquitous Epiphone Casinos, yes. That’s the same pickup, on a hollow-bodied thinline and mounted to the wood. Given the responsiveness of P-90’s, they yield a somewhat different tone vs. a solidbody. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/279 "2010-04-02T22:02:33Z")
Do be aware that the pickups on that particular guitar aren’t necessarily _good_ P-90s and/or humbuckers. They’re somebody’s knock-off of the classic design. They may sound really good, or not-so-much. The beauty of pickups is that they’re (usually easily, but it depends on the guitar) replaceable with better models. So don’t sweat it, and take time to get used to the sound of the instrument before deciding what might be better about it. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2010, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/280 "2010-04-03T02:26:33Z")
And that’s the other reason I need a new guitar. I’m takin’ the strat into little pieces and rebuildin’ it from the inside out. Well, tuners first, then inside out. Got a good book on it. The Complete Guide to Guitar and Amp Maintenance, Ritchie Fliegler. Also the Strat Handbook. Apparently, the GFS aren’t that bad, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172.md?page=15)