# The Great Ongoing Guitar Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [January 31, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172 "2010-01-31T23:20:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 171
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/3404 "2013-11-09T02:51:50Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Out of curiosity, how do YOU finger a B chord? If the answer is “it depends”, please explain. I’m finding that barring the first fret with my index finger and the third fret with my ring finger works pretty well for me but if that’s a bad habit, I’d like to nip it in the bud before I get too attached to it. Do you mean the 2nd and 4th frets for B? 1st and 3rd would be Bb, yes? Yeah, a simple barre is fine for most applications… ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/3405 "2013-11-09T03:02:30Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Out of curiosity, how do YOU finger a B chord? If the answer is “it depends”, please explain. I’m finding that barring the first fret with my index finger and the third fret with my ring finger works pretty well for me but if that’s a bad habit, I’d like to nip it in the bud before I get too attached to it. That’s exactly how I’d do it. At the 2nd/4th frets of course, as **WordMan** notes. Or the barred open-E shape at the 7th. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/3406 "2013-11-09T03:22:45Z")
Doh! Yes, 2nd and 4th. I’m finding Bm a bit tricky too. I don’t see how short fingered people do it. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/3407 "2013-11-09T03:28:09Z")
Okay, here’s my trick: Cheater’s G - lower the A string down to G (detune it two frets). Then finger a B by barring the middle 4 strings at the 4th fret. To play E, hammer your middle finger on the 2nd string, 5th fret and your ring on the 4th string, 6th fret, so the shape looks like an Am7. Can you hear Keith Richards in what you’re doing? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/3408 "2013-11-09T03:43:31Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Doh! Yes, 2nd and 4th. > > I’m finding Bm a bit tricky too. I don’t see how short fingered people do it. Huh, that actually seems easier (at the 2nd) than major for me. Just make an open A-minor shape and bar it. Much less stress on the phalanges, especially when you want the high string included. > [@WordMan](#): > > Okay, here’s my trick: Cheater’s G - lower the A string down to G (detune it two frets). Then finger a B by barring the middle 4 strings at the 4th fret. To play E, hammer your middle finger on the 2nd string, 5th fret and your ring on the 4th string, 6th fret, so the shape looks like an Am7. Can you hear Keith Richards in what you’re doing? Jeez, don’t get me started (up)… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/3409 "2013-11-09T03:51:51Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Huh, that actually seems easier (at the 2nd) than major for me. Just make an open A-minor shape and bar it. Much less stress on the phalanges, especially when you want the high string included. > > Jeez, don’t get me started (up)… 😉 Well that certainly sounds easier than what I’ve been trying to do with my 1st finger 2nd fret of A, 2nd finger 2nd fret of E and 4th finger 4th fret of G. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/3410 "2013-11-09T04:02:24Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Well that certainly sounds easier than what I’ve been trying to do with my 1st finger 2nd fret of A, 2nd finger 2nd fret of E and 4th finger 4th fret of G. Wait, what? Your description sounds like: ```auto EADGBE |||||| |x|||x |||||| |||x|| ``` or ```auto EADGBE |||||| xx|||| |||||| |||x|| ``` I was referring to [this chord shape](http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/index.php?ch=B&mm=m&v=1) for Bm. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/3411 "2013-11-09T14:22:26Z")
It depends what key you’re in - if you’re playing in E Major, switch it out for a B7. If you’re actually playing in B Major, you could just capo at the 4th and play in G. Even without the capo, if you barre at the 4th fret, the remaining three fingers are free to embellish the chord with G or C chord based notes. That’s the disadvantage of barring with your third finger - it leaves you pretty tied up without a lot of options for your remaining fingers, and moving to the next chord gets a little ‘chunky’. A good E-Z B minor chord, by the way - 2nd fret of the first string, 3rd fret of the second string, 4th fret of the third string, open fourth string. Can be fingered with 1, 2, and 3 or 2, 3, and 4 as required. Or substitute a D6 chord. Or don’t barre - just play the middle four strings. Gives you that nice power chord on the bottom. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/3412 "2013-11-16T19:22:36Z")
See here: [http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1345573](http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1345573) It’s over 10 pages now. The OP is: > [@](#): > > **Announcement: 70s strats are not vintage** > I can’t believe how many “vintage” 70s strats I see listed here and on eBay. Ever wonder why they’re all selling? They are nothing like 50s and early 60s Fender guitars. Stop the insanity!! The guy has a point - Fender’s quality control was notoriously bad back then, with wobbly neck pockets and design innovations that had good intent, but not built well - 3-bolt necks with micro-tilt adjustment was a fine idea, but poorly executed, leading to an awful reputation. And their poly finishes back then often left a lot to be desired. But…10 pages of “the quality sucked!” vs. “one man’s junk is another man’s vintage - let’s all be cool” is just hilarious… ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/3413 "2013-11-16T19:28:15Z")
Ways to increase the suffering, if someone were inclined that way: (Do not do this, it’s just amusing considerations of the era.) Jimi liked CBS Strats, as I recall. He preferred the larger headstock. Mustangs and Jazzmasters are largely CBS era, and if it’s good enough for Kurt, it’s good enough for me. Anything over 20 years is ‘vintage’, it’s just that the people on thegearpage are now old and denying it. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/3414 "2013-11-16T19:34:00Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Ways to increase the suffering, if someone were inclined that way: (Do not do this, it’s just amusing considerations of the era.) > > Jimi liked CBS Strats, as I recall. He preferred the larger headstock. > > Mustangs and Jazzmasters are largely CBS era, and if it’s good enough for Kurt, it’s good enough for me. > > Anything over 20 years is ‘vintage’, it’s just that the people on thegearpage are now old and denying it. Yep - you’re right. But Jimi’s big-headstock Strats were from late 60’s; the quality control issues really got out of control in the 70’s. That’s the beef of this OP: that the “awful 70’s Fenders” shouldn’t be accorded collectible status. They may be “old” but they aren’t “vintage” (dammit!) because they had shoddy neck pockets and a finish that looked like an orange peel… Meh. You say Potato…and I say Vintage Potato, and sell it for a 40% premium! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/3415 "2013-11-16T19:59:04Z")
I’ve always called that chord formation (1st finger across all strings at fret X and 3rd finger across strings 4,3,2 at fret X+2) a “double barre”. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/3416 "2013-11-16T20:17:45Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > I was referring to [this chord shape](http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/index.php?ch=B&mm=m&v=1) for Bm. Don’t get too obsessed with barre chords. Once you have them mastered, the next step is learning not to use them anyway! Seriously: keep working on that Bmin barre chord, and practice that shape in different parts of the neck (as you go up, it gets easier, so for example, when you see Dmin, play the barre chord at 5th fret rather than the 1st position chord, and that’ll help you with your Bmin.) Another point is you often don’t need the whole barre. I’ll often play a chord like Bmin with first finger stopping only one note and the other three as they would for the barre chord. I deaden the high E string with the lower part of my first finger. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/3417 "2013-11-16T20:42:07Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > But…10 pages of “the quality sucked!” vs. “one man’s junk is another man’s vintage - let’s all be cool” is just hilarious… Then there’s people that think they’re all nuts for spending more than $500 on a used solid body. I’ll just stay away from there entirely. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/3418 "2013-11-24T13:42:51Z")
> **[The 1959 Guitars of Pearl Jam's Mike McCready - Fretboard Journal](https://www.fretboardjournal.com/video/1959-guitars-pearl-jams-mike-mccready)** > > “It all started with the Strat,” Pearl Jam’s Mike McCready says of his 1959 guitar obsession. Inspired by Stevie Ray Vaughan, McCready procured his own ’59 Fender Stratocaster, which now sports plenty of concert battle scars. As he tells us in this... So here’s a video from the best guitar magazine around, Fretboard Journal. It’s Mike McCready of Pearl Jam discussing 3 guitars he has from 1959 - a Strat, a sunburst Les Paul and a Les Paul Junior. These are _excellent_ guitars, each incredibly desirable - the 'burst LP is the Holy Grail of electrics and worth a couple of hundred thousand dollars at least. But, lordy, he sounds clueless about his guitars. The only glaring :rolleyes: is when he can’t remember the name of the pickup in the LP Junior - the _whole point_ of the appeal of those guitars is their P-90 pickups - but, still, I can’t put my finger on it, but he just sounds a bit more like a rich guy who can afford them more than someone who actually knows his tools. Listen, more power to him - he can afford them, he uses them and tours them - but I still shake my head a bit… ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/3419 "2013-11-24T14:09:42Z")
Oh and I noticed he top-wraps his 'burst - i.e., puts the strings through the tailpiece the wrong way and wrapping them over the TP on the way over the bridge. Changes the break angle - can affect bendability and tone. I’ve done it on some LP’s I’ve owned, but not others… But I wonder if he does it simply because Billy Gibbons does it…😉 ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/3420 "2013-11-24T15:53:59Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > But, lordy, he sounds clueless about his guitars. The only glaring :rolleyes: is when he can’t remember the name of the pickup in the LP Junior - the _whole point_ of the appeal of those guitars is their P-90 pickups - but, still, I can’t put my finger on it, but he just sounds a bit more like a rich guy who can afford them more than someone who actually knows his tools. I thought he was just having a “senior moment” where you know what you want to say but the words just won’t come out. From what I’ve read, his brain has had a hard life. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/3421 "2013-11-27T01:11:33Z")
[http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1979-Solid-Brass-Ibanez-Artist-2622-Guitar-One-of-a-Kind-AND-Functional-/230982079148?pt=Guitar&hash=item35c79ad2ac&afsrc=1](http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1979-Solid-Brass-Ibanez-Artist-2622-Guitar-One-of-a-Kind-AND-Functional-/230982079148?pt=Guitar&hash=item35c79ad2ac&afsrc=1) A mere 76 lbs - makes Jerry Garcia’s Tiger look featherweight by comparison at 14 lbs. Buy it Now price of $24,995. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/3422 "2013-11-27T01:52:45Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > See here: [http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1345573](http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1345573) > > It’s over 10 pages now. The OP is: > > The guy has a point - Fender’s quality control was notoriously bad back then, with wobbly neck pockets and design innovations that had good intent, but not built well - 3-bolt necks with micro-tilt adjustment was a fine idea, but poorly executed, leading to an awful reputation. And their poly finishes back then often left a lot to be desired. > > But…10 pages of “the quality sucked!” vs. “one man’s junk is another man’s vintage - let’s all be cool” is just hilarious… It is funny, though. When I was in high school in the 70s, and saved up my money from my supermarket stockboy/delivery boy job to buy a Telecaster, Fender’s then-current line was regarded as near-junk by the cognoscenti. Now, apparently, those same guitars are “vintage,” and command a premium price. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/3423 "2013-11-27T02:07:46Z")
Yeah, all the worst brass was made in the 70’s 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172.md?page=170) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172.md?page=172)