# The Great Ongoing Guitar Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [January 31, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172 "2010-01-31T23:20:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 211
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4204 "2015-09-14T19:53:50Z")
> [@swampspruce](#): > > One thing to be aware of is size wrt to pots. The mil-spec PECs I ordered from digi-key were larger than the standard Alpha/CTS pots. This made a big difference in my tele where space was tight. The other thing is that super tight tolerances aren’t always a good thing. An electric guitar and amp are fancy audio distortion generators and if you were to build them with audiophile grade components you will get super clean cleans, but dirty,nasty distortion is going to be in short supply. > You probably won’t hear much of a difference swapping pots (unless you drastically change values) unless they ones you have are pooched, the single biggest change you make to any electric is going to be the pickups. **swampspruce** , of course you are right that the pickups are the most important electronic component, but wouldn’t you agree that if you are using the knobs, finding the right pot matters? Upgrading the harness on the orphaned homebrew Tele I upgraded, and on some friends’ Gibson-layout guitars, the difference is really big. Dialing a neck pickup’s Tone down to 1 or 0 sounds muffled and farty. With a good pot and cap in place, it sounds warm and tubey, i.e., Clapton’s Woman Tone. Highs are cut, but the good kind of harmonics aren’t being dampened. For **Bo** , he is playing a different genre and with different distortion levels. I don’t know enough to know how knob twiddling can impact that. In my context, I am looking at a hard-rock level of distortion, when knob twiddling was essential as you worked with big, tube, non-master volume amps. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4205 "2015-09-14T20:07:02Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > \*\*For **Bo** , he is playing a different genre and with different distortion levels. I don’t know enough to know how knob twiddling can impact that. In my context, I am looking at a hard-rock level of distortion, when knob twiddling was essential as you worked with big, tube, non-master volume amps. There is no knob twiddling here: everything is wide open. Neil Young taught me the value of pure gain distortion and I liked that lesson a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4206 "2015-09-15T12:39:04Z")
Neil Young has a lot of silly ideas, Pono for example. I was under the impression that there aren’t any true logarithmic pots, only approximations, using two linear segments (which isn’t as bad as it sounds.) If I’m wrong, please show credible evidence! ---
**Author:** ![Enter\_the\_Flagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Enter\_the\_Flagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enter_the_Flagon)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4207 "2015-09-15T13:10:52Z")
From Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > A logarithmic taper potentiometer has a resistive element that either ‘tapers’ in from one end to the other, or is made from a material whose resistivity varies from one end to the other. This results in a device where output voltage is a logarithmic function of the slider position.[4] > Most (cheaper) “log” potentiometers are not accurately logarithmic, but use two regions of different resistance (but constant resistivity) to approximate a logarithmic law. The two resistive tracks overlap at approximately 50% of the potentiometer rotation; this gives a stepwise logarithmic taper.[5] A logarithmic potentiometer can also be simulated (not very accurately) with a linear one and an external resistor. True logarithmic potentiometers are significantly more expensive. > Logarithmic taper potentiometers are often used in connection with audio amplifiers as human perception of audio volume is logarithmic. Now it’s my turn. I was told there are no such things as horses. 😉 Edit: and Neil Young may or may not be crazy, but if there’s something wrong with a cranked Tweed Deluxe, then a whole lot of musicians have bad hearing. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4208 "2015-09-15T16:13:56Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > **swampspruce** , of course you are right that the pickups are the most important electronic component, but wouldn’t you agree that if you are using the knobs, finding the right pot matters? Upgrading the harness on the orphaned homebrew Tele I upgraded, and on some friends’ Gibson-layout guitars, the difference is really big. Dialing a neck pickup’s Tone down to 1 or 0 sounds muffled and farty. With a good pot and cap in place, it sounds warm and tubey, i.e., Clapton’s Woman Tone. Highs are cut, but the good kind of harmonics aren’t being dampened. > > For **Bo** , he is playing a different genre and with different distortion levels. I don’t know enough to know how knob twiddling can impact that. In my context, I am looking at a hard-rock level of distortion, when knob twiddling was essential as you worked with big, tube, non-master volume amps. You are right, and if you have a vintage guitar running modern gear into it will alter some of the sound properties, which was what I was trying to say about using super tight tolerance audiophile grade components. You _want_ some slack in the speaker and component tolerances; it’s one of the reasons an amp like the Princeton is cherished in the studio, you can get that great breakup at relatively low volumes. Of course, dsp and modern digital amps are a class of their own. My son playing Lamb of God on his 7 string Strat/ Marshall combo with the settings on 11 is not the same as me playing my Tele through my GB playing surf rock, which is the point you are making, and I totally agree. ---
**Author:** ![Enter\_the\_Flagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Enter\_the\_Flagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enter_the_Flagon)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4209 "2015-09-15T22:10:23Z")
> [@swampspruce](#): > > You _want_ some slack in the speaker and component tolerances; it’s one of the reasons an amp like the Princeton is cherished in the studio, you can get that great breakup at relatively low volumes. Of course, dsp and modern digital amps are a class of their own. No doubt the Princeton breaks up earlier than some other amps, but, barring some evidence that the Princeton used components of looser tolerance than other amps used, I’d say that’s more by design than because of any sloppiness. Where slop enters into the equation, it leads to inconsistencies in performance. So, just as many Princetons will sound worse than average as sound better than average, and the occasional outlier will be either a dog or a holy grail - like that old '73 Strat that I never should have sold. If you buy a MIL-SPEC pot, at least you know what to expect, and that sound will be closer to what the designer had in mind, since it takes a truly lazy designer to skip the step of checking his component values for accuracy before testing his circuit. On the other hand, if you mistrust the idea of an accurate pot enough to want to buy a handful of “sloppy” pots, and have the time to audition them all in the guitar, you may well find one that you like best, while being thankful that you didn’t get stuck with the others. Actually, you might call me a cork sniffer, but I kind of like that idea. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4210 "2015-09-15T22:32:29Z")
No, you’re preaching to the choir to some extent since I put mil-spec pots in my Tele. True, that they designed it to do that but they did it specifically based on the parts used in the construction, and so far as I know none of them are better than 5%. Cheaping out on components is not a good idea generally. It’s just that early instruments had that sound due in large part to the variability of the initial components, although they were the best available for the price at the time. I’m not going to use carbon resistors and electrolytic paper caps in an amp I’m going to build for example, but might try to source some out for something like an original Fender Reverb. Same for things like pots. I would sooner throw a NOS part on a 62 Gibby, but you better believe I’ll be using mil-spec on my own new builds. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4211 "2015-10-09T15:50:41Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Read the article - thanks! Kinda frustrated I wasn’t aware of it - I read the New Yorker, but I swear I only skip over some of each issue’s articles ;). > > Trivia: In the photo accompanying the article, they are sitting on steps leaning against a screen door. That’s the entrance to Retrofret (taken from the inside), my favorite old instrument shop, in Brooklyn. It’s address is 233 Butler, which Lage used as the name of a song - I have linked to his solo version of it in the past - he’s playing a '29? Gibson L-5 - swoon: > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJYLfBMPuic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJYLfBMPuic) > > I think I have mentioned the Retrofret’ers have told me that Julian loved a guitar I have now, my '31 Gibson L-1 - and borrowed it a few months at one point for studio work, I believe. Yay. Paging **WordMan** : Fretboard Journal just posted an interview podcast with Julian. Haven’t listened to it yet, but I always like their approach… > **[Podcast 90: Julian Lage - Fretboard Journal](https://www.fretboardjournal.com/podcasts/podcast-90-julian-lage/)** > > Every time we check in with musician Julian Lage, he seems to have a cool new project brewing. For our 90th podcast, we talk to the ridiculously talented guitarist about his forthcoming electric guitar trio, his recent purchase of a Blackguard Tele,... ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4212 "2015-10-09T16:06:03Z")
Oh, cool - I will check it out! Thanks! Hmm - the comments say he discusses his new acquisition of an old blackguard Tele. Man, we have such similar tastes; now if we only had similar abilities! ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4213 "2015-10-09T19:46:46Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Oh, cool - I will check it out! Thanks! > > Hmm - the comments say he discusses his new acquisition of an old blackguard Tele. Man, we have such similar tastes; now if we only had similar abilities! Not to belittle your skills, but I could see this being an entertaining story where a malevolent Genie takes your wish and brings him right _down_ to your level. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4214 "2015-10-09T21:20:52Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > Not to belittle your skills, but I could see this being an entertaining story where a malevolent Genie takes your wish and brings him right _down_ to your level. He’d really have to have screwed up to be cursed like that 😉 ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4215 "2015-10-09T23:33:33Z")
So I’ve been a bit busy with work and the wife being pregnant (due end of November, but it is twins so it could be any time now. Hoping to make it to early November). I haven’t been able to play much at all. There is a one to one function at work, the more I play the better I feel. Due to the pregnancy, playing loud isn’t gonna happen anytime soon. And it won’t happen after the boys are here either. So I got myself a little modeling amp thingy majig. Its a Vox. I am not big on modeling stuff. Samples are ok for some things (like drums) and some of the Sample Tank samples are pretty dang good but those are a bit different than models. However, I prefer a nice tube amp cranked up a bit. I got it this week and was able to play with it for a whopping 20 minutes or so. And it isn’t bad. The heavy tone, lots of gain, is ok. Not quite as nice as my amp (A B-52 AT 212, which they apparently don’t make any more. If my amp dies I am gonna be really sad, I love this amp). The clean tones are quite nice. And there are a ton of effects. When I was playing with it I put it on one of the standard metal patches and, by god, I sounded absolutely amazing. Which was a bit disconcerting in that I am way out of practice. I am not sure what effect were on the patch except some delay, but it sure made the mistakes go away. When I record I don’t use any effects. When I mix, I add in some reverb, eq and compression. So playing with the effects is kinda neat in the ‘Wow, I am so out of practice but damned that sounds good’ way. However, I can also see it leading to ‘Why practice, I can’t hear the mistakes anyway’ kind of thing that I hate. Anyway, I hope to get something recorded this weekend. It’ll be nice to make some noise, even if I am the only one who will hear it… Slee ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4216 "2015-10-13T15:43:43Z")
**slee** - enjoy your noise. When you have to focus on the family, sometimes a bit of time to yourself to crank for a bit is a wonderful thing. And since you are a metal guy, you will probably enjoy this. You know I am not a shredder - I enjoy listening, but make no attempt to play that stuff. I stumbled across this minute-and-a-half vid of Chris Broderick, ex Megadeth after Marty Friedman, doing this two-handed tapping exercise. Just ridiculous. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/xkpZ645ztl0/hqdefault.jpg "Betcha Can't Play This - Chris Broderick (Megadeth)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkpZ645ztl0) ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4217 "2015-10-13T17:03:36Z")
Hehehehe, when I play that kind of stuff at home (no, I don’t have that speed or control), my wife tells me, “I didn’t know I married such a hesher.” Somehow, she loves me anyway. But that said, string it with ultra lights, set the action low and the gain ludicrous, practice your giant intervals slowly, and you can do that stuff **WordMan**. 🙂 And **slee** , that metal patch almost certainly has some amount of delay. Delay is the magic effect that can make all of your mistakes sound like genius, but if you over-do it, it can make it a giant mess.So, you gotta watch yourself. In the analog world, trying out delays can get ridiculously expensive, especially when you get into tape delays. Digital lets you get 90% closer, at a fraction of the cost, if the developer did his job. Look at that patch in an editor if you can, if it has a delay in it, try changing its settings or swapping it out for an emulator of another type of delay. The various types of delays (various tape configurations, bucket brigade chips of various capabilities (hey, EHX made the 16 second craziness), and digital delays (that all have their own different crisp sound)) have an effect on the sound that is nearly as bold as the preamp on your amp. Because, due to the nature of the beast, most non-digital delays have a preamp of their own, and the creators of the emulators do their best to recreate them. So, monkey with it, if you can. You might sound even more awesome. More prominent guitarists than you (or me) have based their careers on manipulating effects. No shame in that, 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4218 "2015-10-13T17:10:34Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > But that said, string it with ultra lights, set the action low and the gain ludicrous, practice your giant intervals slowly, and you can do that stuff **WordMan**. 🙂 Yep. Exactly what I hate in terms of guitar feel, complete with a classical wide-flat profile. I have come to think of that flavor of metal guitar to be a completely different instrument vs. what I play. Much respect, but I know I am not in my own territory. > [@](#): > > In the analog world, trying out delays can get ridiculously expensive, especially when you get into tape delays. Look at that patch in an editor if you can, if it has a delay in it, try changing its settings or swapping it out for an emulator of another type of delay. The various types of delays (various tape configurations, bucket brigade chips of various capabilities (hey, EHX made the 16 second craziness), and digital delays (that all have their own different crisp sound)) have an effect on the sound that is nearly as bold as the preamp on your amp. Because, due to the nature of the beast, most non-digital delays have a preamp of their own, and the creators of the emulators do their best to recreate them. > > So, monkey with it, if you can. You might sound even more awesome. More prominent guitarists than you (or me) have based their careers on manipulating effects. No shame in that, 🙂 I have friends who are mid-life guitar starters and collect effects with their Toy Budgets. I wish they would focus on their playing, and not sounding cool. [boastiness] I have tried to strip as many effects as I can OUT of my chain. [/boastiness] Having said that, folks like Brian May or Jeff Beck make such artistic use of delay. If I could do that, it would be wonderful. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4219 "2015-10-13T17:35:09Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Yep. Exactly what I hate in terms of guitar feel, complete with a classical wide-flat profile. I have come to think of that flavor of metal guitar to be a completely different instrument vs. what I play. Much respect, but I know I am not in my own territory. I’m generally of the same preference. It’s a different tool for different tasks. You can tap on heavier strings (I’ve even tapped on bass in bouts of silliness), but the control/speed aspect gets even harder. > [@WordMan](#): > > I have friends who are mid-life guitar starters and collect effects with their Toy Budgets. I wish they would focus on their playing, and not sounding cool. [boastiness] I have tried to strip as many effects as I can OUT of my chain. [/boastiness] Having said that, folks like Brian May or Jeff Beck make such artistic use of delay. If I could do that, it would be wonderful. Well, I go from episodes of playing straight into the amp to chaining multiple effects, with months or years of doing either. I’ve been somewhere near accused of denigrating the playing of guitarists who use a lot of effects, but I don’t think its a fair accusation. I think it’s just a different method of playing. But, to get good at playing with effects, you have to do the same thing that you do to get good at playing without them: practice, practice, practice. They’re not really a panacea. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4220 "2015-10-13T17:44:43Z")
I am all for getting my picking hand more involved, but for me, it has been in the form of dropping the pick and playing fingerstyle. Past my first few EVH-fueled years as a player, Tapping just isn’t a place I have been interested in exploring even while I love that video clip or when folks like EVH or Beck use it. It’s all good. As for effects: great use of effects is its own level of mastery. Whether you are using to color your sound, or to take a guitar to new places, I am humbled when I see them used well. Unfortunately, I often don’t - so it goes. I have ended up stepping back from them because I have limited time on guitar and try to focus on sounding decent with as simple a rig as possible, but always have a stompbox or two around when I plug in. Being a Luddite is just as silly. ---
**Author:** ![ruellesmith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@ruellesmith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruellesmith)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4221 "2015-10-18T20:37:01Z")
I tried it out with my Peavey Classic 30, thinking to go for a serious old-school vibe. Unfortunately, it behaves as you’d expect a PA cab to behave - a little harsh on the top end. Not TOO bad, but a deal-killer for me. Ah well, we needed the extra PA output anyway. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4222 "2015-12-04T20:33:08Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/7Oo2H-W7d6A/maxresdefault.jpg "Cardboard Guitar Stratocaster Fender : Cardboard Chaos") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Oo2H-W7d6A) Impressive. I’d love to try it. Over on the Gear Page folks are snarking that the Fender bench testers have better chops than the guy from Linkin Park. Also points out how solidbody guitars can be made of most anything… ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4223 "2015-12-04T21:34:43Z")
My local guitar shop is a Larrivee dealer. Got to play their D-09 this afternoon. 😉 really nice. Similar to a Martin D-28. Maybe someday I can afford one. Its still made in America and the founder Jean Larrivée is still very much hands on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172.md?page=210) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172.md?page=212)