# The Great Ongoing Guitar Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [January 31, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172 "2010-01-31T23:20:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 220
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4384 "2016-03-25T23:33:38Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > You mean, it should be 133211 šŸ˜ƒ Not in this case. Unless youā€™re starting out and learning classical guitar, the first form of an F chord youā€™re going to learn is xx3211. Or x03211 because thereā€™s an A in an F major chord, but no one ever talks about that one. ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4385 "2016-03-25T23:51:21Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Iā€™m surprised bass players want to play a fret less bass. I love the frets on my guitar. I have no desire to ever play an instrument without them again. Its like tuning my instrument with a pitchfork. I did that for too many years. Never again. I threw them out after digital tuners hit the market. There is a special sound to it (as mentioned in earlier posts, I plan on using it primarily for cool jazz walking bass lines), and it is really easy to play as long as you know your fretboard and have done loads of arpeggios and scales on a normal bass. In my first couple of weeks with the instrument I have found that itā€™s very easy to navigate, no fret buzz, and if you are slightly off, you hear it. You can use the open strings for a sanity check, but the other musicians are providing enough context. Now, I have played in situations where I really couldnā€™t hear my bass, and that would be disastrous on the fretless. > [@Corporal\_Clegg](#): > > Books are for dinosaurs. Take advantage of free trials of learning services like Jamplay, Guitar Tricks and True Fire. If you can get a couple of weeks or a month free, make the most of it. If you can get more than one, just use up one at a time and give it your all. They have most of what you need to teach yourself guitar. There is also YouTube. We live in a truly amazing time. Thirty years ago everyone was limited to books and music store teachers, college courses, and pro teachers if that were appropriate. Today we can find so many very well made videos that go over intimate details of technique, while still teaching a song in a fun way. One pet peeve I have is that a large % of the people who make those videos spend half of the time showing off how blisteringly fast they are, and not enough time teaching the topic they have chosen. This stands out particularly in bass because our instrument is primarily a part of the rhythm section, tasked with delivering the mail on time every time, and there are tons of bass videos with metal shredders going at it in solos. Cool handleā€“that song started playing immediately in my head as soon as I saw your name. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4386 "2016-03-26T00:10:11Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Not in this case. Unless youā€™re starting out and learning classical guitar, the first form of an F chord youā€™re going to learn is xx3211. Or x03211 because thereā€™s an A in an F major chord, but no one ever talks about that one. Actually my go to now is X3321X. The muting is the challenge, but it sounds best to me. ---
**Author:** ![SigMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@SigMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SigMan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4387 "2016-03-26T00:50:01Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Not in this case. Unless youā€™re starting out and learning classical guitar, the first form of an F chord youā€™re going to learn is xx3211. Or x03211 because thereā€™s an A in an F major chord, but no one ever talks about that one. x03211 puts the 3rd (A) in the bass of an F Maj chord which is known as 1st inversion. 133211 or xx3211 keeps the F in the bass for F Maj. ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4388 "2016-03-26T03:22:39Z")
> [@SigMan](#): > > x03211 puts the 3rd (A) in the bass of an F Maj chord which is known as 1st inversion. I got your backā€”Iā€™ll hit that low F for you on the bass šŸ†’ ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4389 "2016-03-28T17:40:03Z")
Took the Carvin fretless bass on its first gig at church over the weekend! Did a bouncy walking-bass to ā€œBecause He Livesā€ and it was beautiful. I have now lowered the action and straightened the neck to make that ā€œmwahā€ ring out to its fullest. I didnā€™t have the courage to do the full service though, so I had a P-bass for everything else. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4390 "2016-03-29T22:23:53Z")
One of the most famous Martin dreadnaughts is #58957, a 1935 D-28 that was owned by Clarence White of the Kentucky Colonels and The Byrds, and is now owned by national treasure flatpicker Tony Rice. Now, it has legendarily been beat to shit. The soundhole is enlarged so the end of the fingerboard sticks out into the soundhole (when Santa Cruz Guitars made their best-selling Tony Rice model, it had the same enlarged soundhole). It has been refinished, the top sanded down, all kinds of stuff. And Clarence White was known for his raking upstrokes, which led to pickwear above the bass strings. You have to see this thing - here is a link to a thread on the Vintage Corner with a photo that captures the lighting perfectly on the top of this guitar: [The Other Side Of Tony Rice's #58957 - The Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum](http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/topic/177979/The-Other-Side-Of-Tony-Rices-58957) Man, that guitar has stories to tell. Many folks have reported playing it and not being able to get a good sound out of it - action was high and the neck has been thinned, I think. Certainly worked for them. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4391 "2016-03-29T22:38:42Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > One of the most famous Martin dreadnaughts is #58957, a 1935 D-28 that was owned by Clarence White of the Kentucky Colonels and The Byrds, and is now owned by national treasure flatpicker Tony Rice. > > Now, it has legendarily been beat to shit. The soundhole is enlarged so the end of the fingerboard sticks out into the soundhole (when Santa Cruz Guitars made their best-selling Tony Rice model, it had the same enlarged soundhole). \*\* It has been refinished, the top sanded down, \*\*all kinds of stuff. And Clarence White was known for his raking upstrokes, which led to pickwear above the bass strings. > > You have to see this thing - here is a link to a thread on the Vintage Corner with a photo that captures the lighting perfectly on the top of this guitar: [The Other Side Of Tony Rice's #58957 - The Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum](http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/topic/177979/The-Other-Side-Of-Tony-Rices-58957) > > Man, that guitar has stories to tell. Many folks have reported playing it and not being able to get a good sound out of it - action was high and the neck has been thinned, I think. Certainly worked for them. Bolding is mine. I canā€™t imagine what this guitar would look like if it hadnā€™t been refinished. šŸ˜ƒ Great photos Wordman. you can practically smell the stale cigarettes and beer. thanks for posting them. It would be cool to find a photo of the Byrds playing it in a concert. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4392 "2016-03-30T14:35:30Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I currently use a parlor size Washburn for my daily practice guitar. Love it. I owned another Washburn about 20 years ago and liked it too. > > A beginner priced Washburn WD7S Dreadnought is $199. Should be fine after a professional setup. My parlor guitar is one of their more expensive ones. This cheaper one would suit the purpose for awhile until I see if my cousin stays interested in practicing. > > sounds pretty good for the price > > > [review I found](http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/acoustic/washburn-wd7s-554823) I also have a Washburn acoustic I bought about 5 years agoā€¦WD45SCE. It was on the cheaper end, I donā€™t remember exactly, maybe ~$250 or so when I got it. Good guitar, and _really_ good for the money, IMO. It played fine out of the box, so Iā€™ve never even gotten around to getting a pro setup done on it; it would surely benefit some from one, but honestly it plays well as is so it hasnā€™t been a priority. Intonation is good, no buzzing, etc. Action is pretty low, but a setup could probably get it a bit lower, which would be nice, but again not a priority for me. Anyway, I like it and they might be worth checking out if youā€™re shopping in that range. If I need another acoustic Iā€™d sure at least try out a Washburn when I see one. EDIT: Mightā€™ve been ~$350 or so. I donā€™t remember exactly; I do remember I was considering a Martin X-something-or-other, which was about $500-ish, and it was far less than that and I actually liked it better (I remember the Martins I played sounding way to ā€œbrightā€ for my taste). ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4393 "2016-03-30T14:56:30Z")
Washburn is a very old brand. I think theyā€™ve always focused on the lower end of the market. The ones Iā€™ve played have a pretty good sound for the money. Online reviews of the WD7S are positive. Iā€™ve thought about buying a vintage Washburn. But even the ones made in the USA werenā€™t the best quality. I suspect most have warped tops or necks. Beginner guitars arenā€™t intended to last 60 years. šŸ˜‰ Iā€™m upgrading the tuners on my Washburn R320SWRK Parlor. The D and G string tuners stick. Can be very hard turning them. This is the older style, slotted head guitar. I bought a replacement set of Schaller from Allparts.that will fit. Iā€™ve read that Schaller makes very good tuners. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4394 "2016-03-30T15:29:33Z")
Agreed. I know they make a range of stuff at all levels of the market, but you just hardly ever see or hear anything of them. A while back they had a lot of exposure from Nuno Bettencourt, but they seem to be a fairly low-key brand that just keeps on going somehowā€¦they could stay in business another 100-something years and I wouldnā€™t be surprised, or they could fold up tomorrow and I could also say I saw it coming. No idea. And yeah, at some point Iā€™m going to need to upgrade/replace the tuners on mine, I think. Definitely one area thatā€™s weak to keep the cost down. Mine donā€™t stick or slip, but the little plastic rings on the tuning knobs are breaking down and causing them to feel loose and about to fall apart, especially/mostly when changing strings. Schaller hardware should be good. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4395 "2016-03-30T18:08:02Z")
I was practicing a song a little while ago. Picking the melody. Suddenly realized I could pick it from inside the FMaj7 chord. All the notes were in there except the high D note (B string). my pinky can play that. Got a little excited because Iā€™ve been struggling to play the last 5 bars accurately. I find that I play more accurately by anchoring my hand into a chord and picking the melody. Like Silent Night. I pick almost entirely from inside a C chord. Its so much easier to move the 2nd finger from the E note, down a string for the A note while holding the chord. Or just lift a finger if the open string note is needed. Its fun figuring out the most efficient way to pick a melody without my fingers moving around a lot. Sometimes it is necessary to move out of the chord to play a bar or two. But I hold those chords when I can. I donā€™t see that a lot with guys playing lead. They all up and down the neck with their fingers flying everywhere. Just wondering what other players do? Do you anchor your hand in a chord or just play lead with individual notes? I find that Iā€™m drawn more and more to flat picking or carter style. Strumming and picking a little. I have to practice double stops later today. I find them tricky to play evenly. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4396 "2016-03-30T20:22:24Z")
Isnā€™t what you are describing just arpeggiating chords? A lot of leads are accomplished by playing chords and partial chords up the neck and arpeggiating them. ?? ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4397 "2016-03-30T20:52:48Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I was practicing a song a little while ago. Picking the melody. Suddenly realized I could pick it from inside the FMaj7 chord. All the notes were in there except the high D note (B string). my pinky can play that. Got a little excited because Iā€™ve been struggling to play the last 5 bars accurately. > > I find that I play more accurately by anchoring my hand into a chord and picking the melody. Like Silent Night. I pick almost entirely from inside a C chord. Its so much easier to move the 2nd finger from the E note, down a string for the A note while holding the chord. Or just lift a finger if the open string note is needed. Its fun figuring out the most efficient way to pick a melody without my fingers moving around a lot. Sometimes it is necessary to move out of the chord to play a bar or two. But I hold those chords when I can. > > I donā€™t see that a lot with guys playing lead. They all up and down the neck with their fingers flying everywhere. > > Just wondering what other players do? Do you anchor your hand in a chord or just play lead with individual notes? > > I find that Iā€™m drawn more and more to flat picking or carter style. Strumming and picking a little. I have to practice double stops later today. I find them tricky to play evenly. I never learned to play with a pick and after 12 years still canā€™t use one. I canā€™t solo or play lead at all. Instead, the first thing I learned after the basic chord shapes was Travis picking and other alternating thumb stuff. I learned to play melodies by fitting them over the bass line like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQldfTP5jk0&t=23)or [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ4PdfFwr7g&t=13). When my left hand moves, itā€™s in some type of chord shape. Iā€™ve never played in a band, but Iā€™ve played solo in a couple weddings, so being able to play the bass and melody by myself is pretty neat. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4398 "2016-03-30T21:31:06Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Isnā€™t what you are describing just arpeggiating chords? > > A lot of leads are accomplished by playing chords and partial chords up the neck and arpeggiating them. ?? Yeah I donā€™t think you can base a lead style around the notes in a chord alone. Going up (and down) the neck is what lead players have to do to create their story most of the time. ---
**Author:** ![SigMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@SigMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SigMan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4399 "2016-03-30T21:39:49Z")
Lead playing are based on the chord of the moment and use the chord tones but the color came from the other notes. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4400 "2016-03-30T21:44:50Z")
> [@SigMan](#): > > Lead playing are based on the chord of the moment and use the chord tones but the color came from the other notes. Lead guitar is based on scales like all melodies. Everything else including whether to use them or stay in them, or violate them, is up to the circumstance and the player. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4401 "2016-03-30T22:11:29Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Isnā€™t what you are describing just arpeggiating chords? > > A lot of leads are accomplished by playing chords and partial chords up the neck and arpeggiating them. ?? I guess what Iā€™m doing is a type of arpeggiating. Except I only play a string or note if it follows the melody. I learn the melody from lead sheets that I buy from music notes. But the melody can often be figured out just by listening to the recording. Itā€™s just quicker to buy the sheet music. šŸ˜‰ Iā€™ve bought some Carter style arrangements/lessons from a teacher on the web. Itā€™s interesting how they work in the strumming. If thereā€™s a half note, theyā€™ll pick a quarter note and strum a quick dn/up. Or theyā€™ll strum during any rests. Sometimes theyā€™ll steal one of the melody quarter notes and strum a quick beat. The melody will still ring out pretty strong. Iā€™m learning the old Carter song Keep on the Sunny Side in that style. Itā€™s a lot of fun and more interesting than just strumming chords. heres the lesson demo [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/tBV3Mds3fHI/maxresdefault.jpg "How to Play 'Keep on The Sunny Side' - Easy Carter Style Guitar Lesson!") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBV3Mds3fHI) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4402 "2016-03-30T22:23:59Z")
he also teaches more advanced flat picking lessons. Based on Doc Watson and Tony Riceā€™s styles. But, no where near as complicated as they played. Iā€™ll eventually start learning a few of these. But for now Iā€™m learning the easier Carter style. Cross picking can get pretty involved. ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/4403 "2016-04-01T15:22:05Z")
[quote=ā€œaceplace57, post:4401, topic:527172ā€] I guess what Iā€™m doing is a type of arpeggiating. Except I only play a string or note if it follows the melody. I learn the melody from lead sheets that I buy from music notes. But the melody can often be figured out just by listening to the recording. Itā€™s just quicker to buy the sheet music. šŸ˜‰ Iā€™ve bought some Carter style arrangements/lessons from a teacher on the web. Itā€™s interesting how they work in the strumming. If thereā€™s a half note, theyā€™ll pick a quarter note and strum a quick dn/up. Or theyā€™ll strum during any rests. Sometimes theyā€™ll steal one of the melody quarter notes and strum a quick beat. The melody will still ring out pretty strong. Iā€™m learning the old Carter song Keep on the Sunny Side in that style. Itā€™s a lot of fun and more interesting than just strumming chords. heres the lesson demo [/QUOTE] Check out Townes Van Zandt - Live at the Old Quarter [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172.md?page=219) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172.md?page=221)