# The Great Ongoing Guitar Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [January 31, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172 "2010-01-31T23:20:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/581 "2010-06-16T00:05:25Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > More on Rock Band 3: > We’ve got a clear pic of the Squier Stratocaster, now. > [ImageShack - Best place for all of your image hosting and image sharing needs](http://yfrog.com/10f2kuj) > Single pickup, no whammy bar. Good choice, that. Standard cheap Fender bridge adjustments. > The question is, how does it sound? > [http://vimeo.com/12578646](http://vimeo.com/12578646) > It’s the guitar in the first 10 seconds. It’s not _bad_, actually. This is, again, a guitar with MIDI output. My big question, though, is this - is the game now based on playing the right notes of the song in the right rhythm, or is it based on putting your fingers where the game tells you when it tells you, whether or not that corresponds to the notes you are hearing? In other words, the melody plays ‘C up to E up to G up to A down to F’ - do you at least go ‘up up up down’ or do you still go all over the place? I had a ten year old guitar student who would proudly tell me that he’d gone up a level in Guitar Hero that week, then tell me that he hadn’t had time to practice and couldn’t remember the chords to “Horse With No Name.” Drove me batsh!t. This was a couple of years ago, but it has caused me to have a deep and implacable hatred of all computer games based on musical instruments. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/582 "2010-06-16T00:48:53Z")
Can’t say for _sure_ yet. We’ve seen a grand total of twenty seconds of ‘pro mode’. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/frJSMca4iho/maxresdefault.jpg "Rock Band 3 Interview: Rock Band Pro") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frJSMca4iho) As far as we can tell, it’s about pressing specific frets on specific strings, at the levels of easy, medium, advanced, and expert. There are clear indications of chords, but until we see someone playing it, not sure. But yes, up up up up down. It’s a guitar. You’re playing it. Or at least some approximation of it. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/583 "2010-06-16T01:07:04Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > I had a ten year old guitar student who would proudly tell me that he’d gone up a level in Guitar Hero that week, then tell me that he hadn’t had time to practice and couldn’t remember the chords to “Horse With No Name.” Drove me batsh!t. This was a couple of years ago, but it has caused me to have a deep and implacable hatred of all computer games based on musical instruments. Someone I worked with brought a copy of Guitar Hero in to our office. I was a little hesitant, but it turned out to be a lot more fun than I thought it would be. That put the idea in my mind, and a year ago I bought a guitar and have been learning to play. I don’t know _Horse With No Name_, though. That’s not in my book. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/584 "2010-06-16T03:09:53Z")
Well, picture of the guitar, man. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/585 "2010-06-16T05:16:39Z")
Looks a lot like [this](http://www.dv247.com/assets/products/41631_l.jpg). (Mine only has one string tree, but that picture is pretty close.) ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/586 "2010-06-16T05:43:48Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > More on Rock Band 3: > We’ve got a clear pic of the Squier Stratocaster, now. > [ImageShack - Best place for all of your image hosting and image sharing needs](http://yfrog.com/10f2kuj) > Single pickup, no whammy bar. Good choice, that. Standard cheap Fender bridge adjustments. I agree there’s no whammy, but that guitar has two pickups and eight (!) knobs. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/587 "2010-06-16T05:52:44Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > I had a ten year old guitar student who would proudly tell me that he’d gone up a level in Guitar Hero that week, then tell me that he hadn’t had time to practice and couldn’t remember the chords to “Horse With No Name.” Drove me batsh!t. This was a couple of years ago, but it has caused me to have a deep and implacable hatred of all computer games based on musical instruments. I agree, this is problematic for a guitar student, and probably a common frustration for guitar teachers. I think, though, that overall the popularity of Rock Band and Guitar Hero have been positive. My son and all his friends were addicted to these rhythm games, and because of that every one of them aspired to try learning ‘real’ guitar or a related instrument. Some were successful, and some gave up at some point, but I think overall the impact of these games is positive for guitar and other instruments, because it inspired more people to try to take up an instrument, which is always a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/588 "2010-06-16T10:21:45Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > I agree there’s no whammy, but that guitar has two pickups and eight (!) knobs. I think one of the pickups is a finger sensor. Four of the buttons are the XYAB buttons for an X-Box controller, one is the Start button, one is the Back. And one is the D-Pad. I think the Back shares with either the Tone or Volume buttons. [http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/16/rock-band-3-squier-stratocaster-plays-both-real-and-virtual-guit/](http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/16/rock-band-3-squier-stratocaster-plays-both-real-and-virtual-guit/) Here’s someone playing The Hardest Button to Button (White Stripes) on the guitar. Through an amp and in the game. At the same time. It is easy mode, though. ---
**Author:** ![cgg419](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cgg419/32/2847_2.png) [@cgg419](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cgg419)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/589 "2010-06-16T13:14:23Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Here’s someone playing The Hardest Button to Button (White Stripes) on the guitar. Through an amp and in the game. At the same time. It is easy mode, though. This video here shows easy and expert mode…looks amazing 🆒 [Rock Band 3 Demo](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBRHnz8uyss) ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/590 "2010-06-16T14:13:25Z")
Different guitar topic: I got to play some HUGELY pricey/great vintage guitars yesterday. Basically I was trying to work a deal that I am not going to detail out here - too many moving parts - but it put me in a vintage guitar shop, and while I was there, I checked a few things out. Although there were some enticing electrics there, I was in acoustic-land. Here is my report: - A few new Martins - tried a few of their top-of-the-line guitars. They have one called a D18 Authentic which is their equivalent of a Gibson Les Paul VOS Custom Shop series. Lists for ~$10grand; street price more like $6,000. A surprisingly great guitar with a well-defined tone - closest to the great old guitars I have played and better than most new guitars. - A few amazing jumbo Gibsons - including two 50’s J-185’s and a 1953 J-200. Gibson’s jumbo’s - especially the J-200 “the King of the Flattops” - have a longstanding reputation for being identified with some great players from Emmylou Harris to Pete Townshend. But another nickname for them is the Whispering Giant because they aren’t that loud in a lot of cases. I have tried to play a few just to collect data points along the way and not come away impressed. Well, checking these out was a whole 'nother story - that 50’s J-200 was strum-wonderful - it has a get-up-and-go to the tone that just carries your strum hand and makes you want to keep going. This genre of guitar doesn’t care as much for single-string breaks in the middle of your strumming - it wants to be the lead workhorse just holding down the rhythm. Lord if I had the funds to have a third or fourth top-end acoustic, where I could have a specialized strummer, they don’t come any better as a tool for the job. - A few even more amazing vintage Martins - I played a few D18’s - meaning Martin’s mahogany-bodied dreadnaughts, including a 1936 shadetop (first year of Martin’s dreadnaught size, in a sunburst vintage - rare as hen’s teeth and really valuable), a 1940 D18, a 50’s and a few others. Just wonderful - they all had that Martin chimey-ness, and extra gear of explosiveness if you smack the strings hard and an overall balance that most dreadnaughts don’t have. The 1940 was my favorite because of all the Martins, it had the most Gibson-y tone, meaning it had a bit more oomph in the mid-range and a less chimey, more dry, thumpy tone which I tend to prefer. I wasn’t able to pull off the deal I was envisioning, but I got a hell of an education. Thought I’d share. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/591 "2010-06-16T14:48:39Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > I agree, this is problematic for a guitar student, and probably a common frustration for guitar teachers. I think, though, that overall the popularity of Rock Band and Guitar Hero have been positive. My son and all his friends were addicted to these rhythm games, and because of that every one of them aspired to try learning ‘real’ guitar or a related instrument. Some were successful, and some gave up at some point, but I think overall the impact of these games is positive for guitar and other instruments, because it inspired more people to try to take up an instrument, which is always a good thing. It was playing Guitar Hero which got me interested in taking up playing the guitar “for real”, two years ago. That said, since beginning lessons a little over a year ago, I haven’t played GH more than 2 or 3 times. It just doesn’t appeal as much anymore. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cgg419](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cgg419/32/2847_2.png) [@cgg419](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cgg419)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/592 "2010-06-16T15:48:34Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > It was playing Guitar Hero which got me interested in taking up playing the guitar “for real”, two years ago. That said, since beginning lessons a little over a year ago, I haven’t played GH more than 2 or 3 times. It just doesn’t appeal as much anymore. 🙂 I understand completely. I’ve been playing “real” guitar since '97 and although Guitar Hero one and two held my interest for a couple of months each, once I got to Rock Band and had my choice of vocals or drums I never looked back. It’s too dissimilar to an actual guitar to be anything but boring to me. Having said that (:D), this new Pro mode they’re showing off at E3 has me very interested. Mainly because Pro mode isn’t a difficulty level. And I really want to see the medium and hard charts for some songs that are out of my league. Sounds like a great new way to learn and improve. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/593 "2010-06-16T17:24:25Z")
What is up with the street price and the list being so horribly off, anyhow? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/594 "2010-06-16T17:38:51Z")
[http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2010/06/14/2010-06-14\_scientists\_to\_map\_ozzy\_osbournes\_genetic\_code\_to\_find\_out\_how\_he\_survived\_so\_muc.html](http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2010/06/14/2010-06-14_scientists_to_map_ozzy_osbournes_genetic_code_to_find_out_how_he_survived_so_muc.html) In other news, scientists are going to examine Ozzy’s genome to see how the hell he’s still alive. Note that the link is NOT to The Onion. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/595 "2010-06-16T17:40:27Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > [http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2010/06/14/2010-06-14\_scientists\_to\_map\_ozzy\_osbournes\_genetic\_code\_to\_find\_out\_how\_he\_survived\_so\_muc.html](http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2010/06/14/2010-06-14_scientists_to_map_ozzy_osbournes_genetic_code_to_find_out_how_he_survived_so_muc.html) > > In other news, scientists are going to examine Ozzy’s genome to see how the hell he’s still alive. > > Note that the link is NOT to The Onion. I suspect he has a painting of Keith Richards locked up in his attic. 😉 As for why manufacturers list prices that are way above street prices, I assume that that is Old School, like with car dealers where they could start at a much higher price and negotiate down. No idea why they haven’t changed… ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/596 "2010-06-16T20:23:46Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I suspect he has a painting of Keith Richards locked up in his attic. 😉 > > As for why manufacturers list prices that are way above street prices, I assume that that is Old School, like with car dealers where they could start at a much higher price and negotiate down. No idea why they haven’t changed… The very first reply I saw, was too good to just drop: > [@](#): > > Apparently they wanted to use Keith Richards for this project but couldn’t because he’s actually dead, he just doesn’t know it. AND… the first ad under the article was about “report substance abuse” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/597 "2010-06-17T19:18:20Z")
> **[Rock Band 3 X360 - E3 2010: Senior Designer, Sylvain Dubrofsky - IGN](https://www.ign.com/videos/rock-band-3-x360-e3-2010-senior-designer-sylvain-dubrofsky?objectid=28566)** > > Harmonix is here to show you how to rock for real. Hopefully, this’ll be my last Rock Band 3 update. But this is a split screen, guitar and game, of someone playing the Squier… Rainbow in the Dark, Dio, Expert Difficulty, Pro Mode. ---
**Author:** ![BigShooter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f07891/32.png) [@BigShooter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigShooter)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/598 "2010-06-19T22:25:20Z")
Just added another entry to the slowest-guitar-build-ever thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=556186&page=2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=556186&page=2) ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/599 "2010-06-24T19:26:21Z")
I just dropped by to recommend a book to y’all - Paul Quarrington’s "_[Cigar Box Banjo](http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/Cigar-Box-Banjo-Life-Music-Paul-Quarrington-Doyle-Roddy/9781553654384-item.html?ref=Search+Books%3a+%27cigar+box+banjo+quarrington%27)_. It’s a combination of reminiscences of an East Toronto kid getting into the periphery of the Canadian music scene in the 60s and 70s, and a chronicle of his life after his diagnosis with Stage IV lung cancer. A couple of quotations - > [@](#): > > “A” is a great key, because most of the important chords (the fourth, the fifth, even the “Gloria” flattened seven) are open chords. It’s a great key on the guitar, that is; saxophonists don’t care for it. If the guitar player is playing in A, then a tenor saxophonist has to transpose (the instrument actually sounds a tone lower than the written note) to the key of B, which has five sharps. Five sharps represent a lot of cowflaps in the musical pasture, if you see what I mean. It is for this reason that the sax player is always the best musician in the band. or this, from the time a teenage Paul Quarrington was jamming with his teenage drummer, Conrad. PQ discovered that his friend Conrad’s stepdad was not just any drummer, he was Ed Thigpen, who played with Ella Fitzgerald, Duke Ellington and Oscar Peterson - > [@](#): > > Well, I never. My initial thought, I’ll confess, was that Conrad’s stepdad was lying about being a professional drummer, because he appeared to be, well, spazzing out, waving his arms in broad circular motions, the sticks just happening to deflect off cowhide and metal. Drummers were supposed to move with robotic precision, and if they wanted to hit a cymbal, it seemed to me, they should turn and look at the thing for a full two seconds, addressing it, making sure it hadn’t moved away somehow, before whacking it. Ed’s eyes were elsewhere, and while I don’t suppose they actually rolled up into the inside of his skull, that is certainly the impression I received. But soon I became aware that there was a presence in the room, a force with the power of a tidal wave. At least, it was far, far stronger than my twiddling little Keith Richards lick. > > This was rhythm. > > I had never encountered rhythm at close quarters before, certainly had never been trapped with it in a basement, where it bullied me up against the wall and slapped me around. “This Land Is Your Land” does not prepare a fellow for rhythm. Oh, certainly, that song has rhythm, but it has rhythm like an old woman might have a poodle, a dog with clipped fur and papers that give its legal name as “Lancelot of Les Halles.” This rhythm was like an atavistic mastiff, only a mutated gene away from ferity. > > It was scary. > > Joel (Paul’s brother) seemed to be battling rhythm more valiantly than I. He was playing with exhilaration, and a broad grin had blossomed across his freckled face. Indeed, if rhythm were a bucking bronco, he did his eight seconds. I loved it - he has an incredible way of describing a workaday rock musician’s world… ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/600 "2010-06-24T21:55:38Z")
Very cool, **Le Ministre** ; I may have to check that one out. He sure is right about A and sax players! And speaking of rhythm, last night I caught Paul Motian playing drums in a jazz combo. For those of you who don’t know, one of the best, most highly-regarded jazz albums - barely a notch blow the all-time chamion, Miles Davis’ Kind of Blue - is Bill Evans [Sunday at the Village Vanguard](http://www.amazon.com/Sunday-Village-Vanguard-Bill-Evans/dp/B000000Y87), from 1961 (by the way Evans played on Kind of Blue, too). Anyway, Motian was the drummer on that record - and at around 75 years old today, still has it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172.md?page=31)